Internal brick wall moves when pushed

[champy]

The upstairs wall in our front room moves when I push on it

I can get it to move about 5mm back and forth.

The house is 100 year old, it's a double skinned wall, this is the interior skin of the external wall the cavity is currently open by the window waiting to be plastered. The exterior skin has recently been repointed.

I can't see any brick ties in the cavity, I assume they've rusted away.

The bit of the wall that moves is about 4 foot wide on the right hand side of the window and about 8ft high starting from a foot above the floor boards. The same wall downstairs is perfectly fine, I've had that back to brick too.

Basically, how serious is this? Do I need to do anything, if so do I just put some remedial brick ties in from the inside?

I'm pretty worried about this.

 

[vinn]

Given your worries would it be possible to post some photos showing the outside brickwork and the loose internal brickwork?
Can you see a wall plate with ceiling joists & rafters resting on top? Have you looked from in the loft?
Can you see a wooden lintel above the window opening?
Are you replacing original windows?

 

[^woody^]

Strap it to the ceiling joists or roof rafters.

 

[champy]

Given your worries would it be possible to post some photos showing the outside brickwork and the loose internal brickwork?
Can you see a wall plate with ceiling joists & rafters resting on top? Have you looked from in the loft?
Can you see a wooden lintel above the window opening?
Are you replacing original windows?

Ill take a pic shortly.

We have already replaced pvc windows with some more pvc.

Yes there is an original timber lintel above the window.

I can't see a wall plate, it's too obscured but I can just make out the edge of the first floor joists, and they look like they rest directly on the inside skin brick wall. As in the joists go directly in to the wall.

I imagine the ceiling joists will be the same, i.e. No wall plate just resting directly on brick.

I can't see from the loft as it's been converted.

 

[noseall]

Sometimes when brick panels are built within a timber frame (for whatever reason) they end up moving when the timber inevitably shrinks. There may be timber hidden beneath your plaster. Or there may not

 

[champy]

Okay so I've uploaded some images below, two of the wall and one of the cavity gap, I removed all the blown plaster a while ago, and basically the walls moves as a whole from the lintel at the bottom of the window to the dado rail at the top and from the timber to about a foot in to the next room past the perpendicular wall (a partition wall put in at some point).

Ok attached are the pictures

 

[vinn]

Quick reply: can you post a photo of the upper wall to the ceiling?
Is this room on the ground floor or on the first floor?

 

[vinn]

Are you saying that the wall to the right of the window - from stone cill to ceiling - is moving, & the movement continues to the right past the partition wall for about one foot?
What about immediately above the window - in the curtain rail area - is that loose too?

The cavity shows that no return, tie-in brickwork was used to seal the cavity, and secure the panels of brickwork. If you use a mirror & a torch you could look into the cavity.

The original window would have been a box, double hung window frame - which may have given some support to the surrounding brickwork.

Keep knocking off plaster up to the ceiling but dont go too near the inside corner. Stay about 50mm away.
Have you knocked off any plaster in the next room?

 

[champy]

Are you saying that the wall to the right of the window - from stone cill to ceiling - is moving, & the movement continues to the right past the partition wall for about one foot?
What about immediately above the window - in the curtain rail area - is that loose too?

The cavity shows that no return, tie-in brickwork was used to seal the cavity, and secure the panels of brickwork. If you use a mirror & a torch you could look into the cavity.

The original window would have been a box, double hung window frame - which may have given some support to the surrounding brickwork.

Keep knocking off plaster up to the ceiling but dont go too near the inside corner. Stay about 50mm away.
Have you knocked off any plaster in the next room?

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying.

Above the window seams perfectly fine and solid.

No I haven't knocked any plaster off the next room as all the plaster is in good condition.

 

[champy]

The cavity shows that no return, tie-in brickwork was used to seal the cavity, and secure the panels of brickwork. If you use a mirror & a torch you could look into the cavity.

The original window would have been a box, double hung window frame - which may have given some support to the surrounding brickwork

Yeah that's what I thought, when they where replaced with upvc they just packed it out with timber.

What would knocking off more plaster achieve by the way?

 

[vinn]

I'm looking for significant cracks in the brickwork & having a sight of the wall plate.
Q - a couple of questions above not answered?
In the daylight perhaps a photo of the outside brickwork?

 

[champy]

I'm looking for significant cracks in the brickwork & having a sight of the wall plate.
Q - a couple of questions above not answered?
In the daylight perhaps a photo of the outside brickwork?

Sorry I missed you're above comment.

The room is on the first floor, the same wall directly below on the ground floor is perfectly fine (i've had this back to brick too).

I've attached the pics you requested, you can see how the joists are attached like this, there is no wall plate:

I've also attached some more pics of the wall, the section of brick under the window also moves slightly as one, this section stops at the right of the window, just where the main moving section starts. We had the front repointed about a month ago and they patched up under the window, but all this mortar has now cracked and still moves the same way.

 

[champy]

I'm looking for significant cracks in the brickwork & having a sight of the wall plate.
Q - a couple of questions above not answered?
In the daylight perhaps a photo of the outside brickwork?

Hes a picture of the outside, it's the top window:

You can see the stones underneath the gutter, they extend over both brick walls, you can see the back off it from the inside. Below is a picture of the back room on the same floor where I have removed the plaster right to the ceiling, you can see the stone right at the top (it's the darker looking big brick). Because of this I think the ceiling joists rest directly on top of those stones, probably with out a wall plate.

 

[stuart45]

When your house was built there should have been wall ties every 4 courses at opening jambs as this is a weak point in the wall.
When box frames were used the inner wall wasn't returned as the frame closed the cavity. Your's looks like the frame sat behind the external wall which formed a recessed jamb. That's why the inner wall has had some timber to make up the gap.
I've rebuilt loads of jambs in this situation to return the inner wall, but the wall needs ties to the external skin as the inner skin would be separated from the external by a strip of 6 inch DPC.
On modern houses you only have a bit of plastic closing the cavity.

 

[TheVictorian]

That is a very early cavity wall, possibly they didn't know what they were doing when they built it! A few remedial ties would steady it up and then it should be good for another 100 years. The original windows probably helped hold it all steady.