Is it safe ?

[pipme]

This has electrical bias, but more generalised I think so posted here.

Is it safe for a diyer to be using a battery powered drill, making holes in walls ... with the mains electricity supply switched off ?

'Frinstance, MP's daughter was sadly electrocuted in recent history .. I did think,just supposition here that drilling thro cable was root cause of tragedy, surely the 'driller' knew he had hit a cable ?
Quite possibly not, with main electric off and a battery powered drill !!
So, what if electrics have already been very properly checked and passed ok, prior to drilling and fixing potentially live kitchen equipment ?

Begs the question .. should we amateurs drill with battery drill ? ... If electric is on and cable hit just on the live... the drill aint earthed !!
If electric off, then one would not without further checks know if cable has been hit.
Is there a case for drilling holes with mains drill... and circuits switched on.
I humbly submit the much maligned screwdriver tester ... proven prior to and after use, on a known live ... COULD be very useful on screwheads in walls and floor fixings, for those drillers without a multimeter !!
P

 

[TexMex]

If you drill through a cable (power off, with battery drill), and sever a cable. chances are, you wouldn't know you had done it. (both halves of the ring are still be connected back to the CU.

You would, therefore, be better off, doing it live. That way, in the event that you hit a cable, you have some indication (in the form of a bang) that it has happened.

the drill aint earthed !!

The bits of the drill that you actuall hold are usually pretty well issolated from the chuck nowadays, and you shouldn't be touching the chuck while drilling as rotating parts can be dangerous. What about the use of a retractable perspex shield around the chuck.

Oh sh*t, shouldn't have suggested that. Now some well meaning manufacturer will start making their drills with built in spring loaded perspex covers, to shield the work area. Next a member of the board of this manufacturer will lobby (ie slip a back hander to) his chummy MP. Then their use will become mandatory. The chancelor will then jump on the opportunity to extort more money from the building trade, and before you know it, we'll all have to throw away our old drills, pay out for new ones (with the shield), pay out for a training course on the use of the ones with shields attached, pay out for a registration scheme (to prove that we've been on the course). You'll then have to take your drill to an approved testing centre every year to get a certificate to say that it is still safe to use (naturally paying for the privilage). And it will all be your fault PIP. What on earth posessed you to suggest such a scheme.

 

[pipme]

It did strike me .. what if power off - battery drill - brass screw fix metallic item to wall - screw is through live - not severing it - waiting for someone to touch when power is restored !! It could be a point when risk assessing would it not ? Split plastic wall plug may not protect !!
P

 

[TexMex]

'Frinstance, MP's daughter was sadly electrocuted in recent history

I recall the case (in the shower wasn't it?). There was also thread on this forum discussing it at the time. Sad though it is, it is still excedingly rare. (if it was more common, it wouldn't have made the papers). As such, I think we should regard this as a "Oh well sh*t happens".

I think you'll find that more people were killed by lightening last year, than from live screws in the wall, but I don't fancy the clutter of a mobile farraday cage every time I go out of the house.

I humbly submit the much maligned screwdriver tester ... proven prior to and after use, on a known live ... COULD be very useful on screwheads in walls and floor fixings, for those drillers without a multimeter !

Agree with that. I heard recently that they were (or in the process of being) outlawed. Is that right?

 

[jackofallmasterofnone]

There is a little gismo available that will scan for hidden cables before drilling.

Ste

 

[pipme]

'Frinstance, MP's daughter was sadly electrocuted in recent history

I recall the case (in the shower wasn't it?). There was also thread on this forum discussing it at the time. Sad though it is, it is still excedingly rare. (if it was more common, it wouldn't have made the papers). As such, I think we should regard this as a "Oh well sh*t happens".

I think you'll find that more people were killed by lightening last year, than from live screws in the wall, but I don't fancy the clutter of a mobile farraday cage every time I go out of the house.

I humbly submit the much maligned screwdriver tester ... proven prior to and after use, on a known live ... COULD be very useful on screwheads in walls and floor fixings, for those drillers without a multimeter !

Agree with that. I heard recently that they were (or in the process of being) outlawed. Is that right?

Twas in the kitchen.

Perhaps all the live wall / floorboard screws / nails aint been found ..... yet !!

Don't know about screwdriver tester ... I wonder if they get a bad name due to misuse causing failure ?

P

 

[masona]

It has been mention what happen in the electric section, can't find it. I think it was the screw touching the live wire when putting the shelve up and touched the shelve bracket which was live.

 

[Thermo]

it was a cable from a socket in a kitchen that was buried in the wall. the householder then put up a metal plate rack and drilled and screwed through the cable making the rack live....bang!!

 

[kendor]

The Brass screw scenario , perhaps it could be termed as extraneous metalwork and be bonded

 

[pipme]

No prob --- welded --- if it hits the sweet spot

 

[TexMex]

Twas in the kitchen.

You're quite right, I was confusing this case , and the one alluded to in this one.

It must be more common that I thought. Still, considering the human race is not an endangered species, all these safety regulations are just slowing down evolution. Humans only got to be smart by having to use their intelligence to survive. If you make it illegal for anyone to do anything dangerous, even thickos will continue to breed. By the end of the millenium we could be overtaken by chimpanzees as the dominant species. Is that what you want? cos that's what's gonna happen (In a Harry enfield voice)

 

[pipme]

Ah, but we are working on the old monkeys .. ripping out their trees and mangling their habitats ... we'll beat 'em no problems ... I bet the EU is good for a few dozen rainforests a year .. on toilet rolls alone, my gosh if the a ss licking should stop it'll be curtains for all tree dwellers ( ) !

BTW the electrocution case Mary Wherry, 34, daughter of Richmond Park MP Jenny Tonge:-
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/12452842?source=Evening Standard
Strengthens case for PP :-
http://www.niceic.org.uk/partp/newsitem_oct1204.htm
If it were kitchen fitters wouldn't NICEIC have made more of it ?

... coroner Alison Thompson said electricians failed to follow the simple rule of running wiring in straight horizontal or vertical lines....

P

 

[TexMex]

Perhaps the answer is to do up all screws (that go into the wall) with an earthed screwdriver with the power turned on. That way, if it penetrates a live cable it will go bang. Or perhaps, (just to make sure that Planet of the Apes never becomes a reality), we should train the monkeys to do up the screws and make sure that their leash is earthed.

Or would their introduction to our technology give them an unfair advantage. Probably be best to leave them in the trees, typing Shakespears sonnets.

 

[oilman]

...... I bet the EU is good for a few dozen rainforests a year .. on toilet rolls alone

First, toilet rolls ain't made from tropical rainforest, they're made from temperate woods, (hard and soft). Second, people could halve the consumption of toilet rolls by being less wasteful and using both sides.

 

[pipme]

...... I bet the EU is good for a few dozen rainforests a year .. on toilet rolls alone

First, toilet rolls ain't made from tropical rainforest, they're made from temperate woods, (hard and soft). Second, people could halve the consumption of toilet rolls by being less wasteful and using both sides.

Ok, sorry ... ..dozen forests of some description ... hokay
So I guess rain-forests could be plundered to make way for the fast growing plantation stuff which is good for tissue making ?
Some interesting stuff .. is it a tissue of lies ?
http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2004/november/tissue.htm
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ca...o.uk/toilet.htm+toilet+roll+manufacture&hl=en

BTW ... Go out east and investigate what really happens ..remember they put ordinary steel components in gearboxes for the USAF ... Engineers said 'But they cannot use mild steel for those components' tell that to the pilot hanging off the chute !!