Is my System dangerous?

[boscoeuk]

Hi all, getting very worried... Cutting a long story as short as possible, I Live in France and bought a Rayburn online, contacted a plumber/wood fire 'expert' advertising in a local English language paper to come and install it.

There was an old wood fired boiler doing the CH before which he took as part payment.

He plumbed in the new system (I think) pretty much as it was before but, I think for ease, moved the pump from the flow side to the return. What really worried me is that I asked him if a tank I'd seen in the UK would be OK to add to the system to do my hot water and he said yes, this was a vented two coil tank (I was going to add solar later) The tank was ordered and delivered with the rayburn.

He did all the pipework but was going on holiday and left me the tank to fit, leaving me with four flexi hoses, one for the three way valve one for the return (see pic), one for the tot of the cylinder into the hot water pipe and the last for the cold water fill direct from the mains (here in France about 6 bar) he told me to buy a PRV from the DIY store and install it between the fill and the tank.

Something must have clicked in my brain and I did some research on the net downloaded the rayburn installation manual and found that you need a header tank for this kind of tank, which we don't have. We do have what I think is an expansion tank in the loft (see pic). Given then I read stories of tanks exploding and taking down the gable end of the house I'm getting very worried that the plumbing he's done for the heating is all wrong and potentially dangerous. The cold feed is turned off and if it is on it runs out of the overflow in the roof, he didn't say this was wrong but looking at some other stuff shouldn't this be on? Stuck ballcock? No ballcock Also both the cold feed and vent pipe are as hot as the flow and return pipes, normal?

Untitled

• boscoeuk
• 27 Nov 2011
• 1

Untitled

• boscoeuk
• 27 Nov 2011
• 1

Untitled

• boscoeuk
• 27 Nov 2011
• 1

Can someone PLEASE put my mind at ease and let me know if this is all OK or not?

Thanks in advance

 

[dcawkwell]

Yes a Rayburn needs an open vented central heating tank in the loft like any solid fuel type
heating boiler. Sounds like your plumber doesn't know what he is doing.
Get someone else.
A Rayburn isn't suitable for an unvented hot water tank. You might want to
check on the Rayburn website for advice on that one. It would certainly
need a zone valve to cut off the heat to an unvented cylinder.

I haven't the time for Rayburns myself. Get yourself a modern heating system, boiler and tank. Don't know what they do in France for that sort of thing.

Lots of cheap electric I thought from those nuclear power stations.
I would have said air source heat pump.

 

[boscoeuk]

Thanks for the swift reply... I'm certainly not going to put the unvented tank on the system however could you comment on if the CH system is OK or not as it is set up at the moment. It is actually working and the rads are hot, but is it OK? read something about over pumping and a little information is a very dangerous thing, hence my post on here

 

[frenchey]

There are very few header tanks fitted in France other than by British expats. The french norms require a different approach using a sealed ballon fed by mains pressure / Vase d'expansion ouvert. And to stop the tank from exploding a groupe de sécurité that allows excess to vent to waste. If you are not sure I would strongly advise using your french plumber or else you risk invalidating your house insurance if your tank explodes and your system does not comply with the french Normes

You might find the following site/thread of use with regard to DIY in your french house
http://www.totalfrance.com/france/f...der=asc&highlight=header+tank+boiler&&start=0

 

[Corgigrouch]

I can't comment if that set up meets French regs but it wouldn't be acceptable here in the UK. Solid fuel heating devices need somewhere for the water and steam to go in the event of them overheating and as such a Feed and Expansion tank in the loft is the correct way of ensuring that the system doesn't rupture...

 

[leakydave]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what fuel does your Rayburn use?

I have fitted Rayburns to unvented cylinders and sealed systems, but only oil fired twin-burner Rayburns...

 

[Corgigrouch]

Pressure jet oil burners should be fine as if it was to overheat, once the burner is shut off it will start to cool down... solid fuel takes a long time to shut down once you have closed the damper and so will continue to boil for quite a while

 

[boscoeuk]

The rayburn is a solid fuel, we use wood.

I think the third photo is an expansion tank, no?

With respect, I'm not doing a DIY system Fenchy, that's why I paid someone. I know very little about plumbing other than the basics and what I have read over the last few days on the web (that scared me). I'm doing some renovation to the house but have employed an electrician to do the electrics to code and thought I'd employed a qualified plumber (his siret number checks out)

 

[Corgigrouch]

If the third photo is a feed and expansion tank with an overflow then it seems to be OK, my mistake as I didn't really notice the third pic.. As long as the water/steam has somewhere to go safely in the event of an overheat then you'll be fine.

I take it that the expansion tank is sealed apart from the vent that runs onto the roof.... Don't forget to crack open the top up valve now and then..

 

[boscoeuk]

Corgigrouch, it's dificult to tell as the the second floor has a suspended celling and I can't get to it to have a look without the risk of falling through the celling!

I do know that the pipe to the right of the photo goes out through the roof as when I turn the cold feed tap on it over flows out through the roof.

Are the vent, pump and fill in the right place at the moment? should I be worried about the vent and cold both feeling hot?
thanks for your time in replying, and sorry if these are daft questions

 

[Norcon]

Looks like no gravity circuit to a hw cylinder and probably no hi-lo stats in combination in control.

 

[boscoeuk]

Norcon, sorry not sure what that means?

 

[Norcon]

It means its not installed as per the MI's.
Hand your plumber a copy and instruct him to start again or get someone else.

 

[boscoeuk]

Thanks Norcom, anyone care to let me know what it should be like? I've already got another plumber coming this week but would like to know what I should be getting told, don't want to get done again. I know it's my decision but I don't yet have a network of friends that could recommend good guys, so I'm back to sticking a pin in the yellow pages.

Thanks in advance

 

[Norcon]

I don't know you're exact model but it should look something like Fig 5.
http://tinyurl.com/c5e5lxn