Is there a dying whale in my heating system?

[Glenbirnie]

I used to have a Raeburn range cooker with boiler which was in the house when i moved in. It was crap as a cooker so had to go. I had an IDEAL Logic heat 30 condensing gas boiler fitted in a different location with in the house. At the same time the system was split into a dual system so I can control upstairs and down stairs heating independantly.

The system has never appeared to be 100% because we used to get a no flow fault code on the boiler. Eventually I had an IDEAL engineer check it as my own plumber couldnt fix it. He opened up the bypass valve and that seems to have fixed that problem.

The other problem no one can fix is the start up noise. Everytime the boiler starts up after the heating has been off for a long time usually over night there is a horrendously loud noise like a blue whale being played at a very slow speed, wakes the kids up every morning!

I presumed its air in the system? Once running everything seems ok. Im worried something is being damaged and its obviously not right.

Any ideas?

 

[mcmoby69]

you dont say how long ago the boiler was installed. have you had it serviced since then?

you also need to find out where the noise is coming from. I have been to a similar problem and found it was the boiler causing the noise not the central heating system. if it is the boiler causing the noise, you will need a gassafe engineer to fix it, it should be quite simple.

 

[Glenbirnie]

The boiler was fitted new October last year so it hasnt been serviced. Weve had this problem probably from about January. We kept getting a no flow error on the boiler but the IDEAL engineer fixed that by adjusting the bypass valve.

Its difficult to determine exactly where the noise is coming from but it appears to be flow and return pipes between the boiler and the airing cupboard which houses the pump.

If I adjust the pump setting (1, 2 or 3) while the noise is happening it changes the pitch of the noise.

 

[DP]

Does the boiler get noisy after the burner has ignited?

Do you get the same noise if all the radiators are calling for heat I.e. the trvs are fully open. What is the temperature difference between flow and return.

Do you get this noise when running a hot tap with tap opened for a trickle, medium and full flow

 

[Glenbirnie]

Does the boiler get noisy after the burner has ignited?

Do you get the same noise if all the radiators are calling for heat I.e. the trvs are fully open. What is the temperature difference between flow and return.

Do you get this noise when running a hot tap with tap opened for a trickle, medium and full flow

The noise happens about a minute after the burner has started wether for hot water or heating. You can hear the noise then get fainter over time and it ends.

We dont really touch the TRV's much, maybe put lounge from 2 to 3 if its a bit colder etc but most rooms stay the same. We try to limit heating costs so generally TRV's are on 1 or 2 occasionally 3. Temp between flow and return is, cant touch flow, return is warm but not hot.

The noise is nothing to do with flowing hot tap, its not the noise ive seen on some system where you can spin the hot tap closed and get a hammer noise in the pipes.

Thanks

 

[gavinda]

This sounds like poor combustion in the boiler, perhaps getting the boiler checked and the combustion adjusted would be a good idea. It

It is recommended that all gas appliances are checked annually.

 

[ianmcd]

Im with gavinda on this one , sounds like the off set is out on the gas valve and the burner is resonating on low flame a very easy fix to an experienced engineer but DO NOT attempt to adjust yourself as if you knock it way out takes ages to set back up properly

 

[DP]

What I was trying to establish was, is the problem flow related. In CH mode you have rad valves well restricted (I wonder if you have a room thermostat to put the heating on when it gets cold instead of you 'raising' the TRV setting when it gets cold- that would happen anyway if the temperature dropped below the set point selected on the TRV ). Hence the reason why I asked if rad valve could be fully open for the test

During HW mode, full heat output is applied to load when hot tap is running 'full bore'. Resistance in circuit is minimal during HW demand. If it were a restricted flow problem, DHW run would be trouble free

 

[shambolic]

This sounds like poor combustion in the boiler, perhaps getting the boiler checked and the combustion adjusted would be a good idea. It

It is recommended that all gas appliances are checked annually.

You can't adjust the combustion on a logic!!
It does sound like the wrong air gas mixture on high fire, could be gas supply problem undersized or dirt in gas valve filter.
Could also be flue seal or other flue problem better getting Idealback out as still under warranty.

 

[shambolic]

What I was trying to establish was, is the problem flow related. In CH mode you have rad valves well restricted (I wonder if you have a room thermostat to put the heating on when it gets cold instead of you 'raising' the TRV setting when it gets cold- that would happen anyway if the temperature dropped below the set point selected on the TRV ). Hence the reason why I asked if rad valve could be fully open for the test

During HW mode, full heat output is applied to load when hot tap is running 'full bore'. Resistance in circuit is minimal during HW demand. If it were a restricted flow problem, DHW run would be trouble free

It's a heat only not a combi mate

 

[shambolic]

Is it a logic heat or a logic heat plus? the plus can be put in installer mode giving flow and return temperatures and boiler water flow rate.
If there was a circulation problem the boiler flow switch would fail to bring boiler on if the pump wasn't circulating of there was an airlock.

 

[shambolic]

Ps don't mention to ideal customer service that it's not been serviced as servicing is a proviso of warranty!!

 

[gavinda]

You can't adjust the combustion on a logic!!
It does sound like the wrong air gas mixture on high fire, could be gas supply problem undersized or dirt in gas valve filter.
Could also be flue seal or other flue problem better getting Idealback out as still under warranty.

ive yet to see this boiler IRL, what do you do when the combustion is out of spec?

 

[shambolic]

You can't adjust the combustion on a logic!!
It does sound like the wrong air gas mixture on high fire, could be gas supply problem undersized or dirt in gas valve filter.
Could also be flue seal or other flue problem better getting Idealback out as still under warranty.

ive yet to see this boiler IRL, what do you do when the combustion is out of spec?

Do all the usual flue, condense, inlet pressure checks then put in a new gas valve as they are non adjustable for safety reasons. (or moneymaking reason ( thought I would get that in first!)).

 

[gavinda]

moneymaking sounds about right. its not saftey for certain. quite a few manu's used to say that, but phone them up and you could adjust it with their say so.