Is this quote reasonable?

[MightyMouth]

I have had a quote to replace my existing fuse box with a new CU and to run an electricity supply to my shed, its about a 40m run, I plan on running a radio, occasionally a heater and 2 2.4kw kettle elements which are used in beer making to boil the beer.

Replace existing fusebox to accommodate the shed circuit and at least 3 spare ways £318.50 +Vat

Cabling to shed in 3 core 10MM CSA clipped to concreted Gravel boards along fence into 4 way CU £477 +vat

install 1 external twin waterproof socket, 1 twin internal socket, 2 x 5 ft fluorescent Lights and 2 light switches. All cabling to be clipped directly to wooden joists £258 +Vat

Total 1053.5 +Vat

This is the first quote I have gotten and was not expecting anything this high. I reckon I could do the work myself in under 8 hours and the materials would cost in the region of £320 so do electricians in the midlands actually charge that much labour? Near enough £100/hour? I was thinking more along the lines of £600 +vat or am I way out?

Anyway, another question which I have searched for in the forums and just found conflicting answers is - Is it legal to run Armoured Cable above ground clipped to Concrete Fence posts and Gravel boards? Can anyone give a definitive answer so if I decided to do the work myself and notify the Local Authority before hand, would they OK the work afterwards with the cable clipped to the fence?

Thanks

 

[Softus]

This is the first quote I have gotten and was not expecting anything this high. I reckon I could do the work myself in under 8 hours

You couldn't.

and the materials would cost in the region of £320

They wouldn't.

am I way out?

Yes.

I decided to do the work myself and notify the Local Authority before hand, would they OK the work afterwards with the cable clipped to the fence?

You've already said that you could do the work in under eight hours, so how can you not know the answer to this?

 

[sjwkmje]

Under 8 hours for that type of work seems a little short. I really doubt it could be done in 8 hours. It would take me a day to install a new CU, inspection and testing of the new CU. This would include me first at the quote stage doing a PIR on the installation so I can find out what sate the cabling is in and any faults I would need to correct so I could factor these into the quote. A PIR cert would be given to the customer. The PIR would be charged to the customer and I would explain why a PIR is needed.

Your price for materials seems a little low. Considering the length and current cost of 10mm SWA. Does any one else think this CSA seems a little under sized considering the load and length?

The price for the CU change seems a little low. You might need an RCBO for the shed circuit to stop any nusance tripping. I would not wire a shed / outside building to the house CU, I would split the tails, fit a correctly sized over current protection device in a metal clad enclosure and glad direct to this with an earth nut.

Testing and inspection of all this could take upto a day.

Considering the quote price its not to bad for the work been under took,

That's just my oppion,

Adam

 

[Adam_151]

As the above poster had said, I'd check 10mm was upto spec before installing it... what size protective device does he intend installing for the distribution circuit? and did he design the circuit as such, or did he just scratch his head and say 10mm will do it?

Anyway, what jumps out at me, is that you'll want more than one twin socket outlet inside... if you are planning on plugging two 2.6kw loads in (not to mention the space heater you have for when it gets cold), if it were me, I'd go for two dedicated single sokcets for the beer heating, and two general purpose twin ones.

Oh, I'd also check that the RCD protection is on the shed board, rather than on one of the RCDs in the house board (its a stretch to say a board with an RCD covering many circuits complies as it is, before you start including distrubution circuits in them).

And if the lighting circuit in shed is covered by RCD, I'd personally have a non maintained EM fitting on it, but perhaps thats just me... no reason to have the lighting on RCD in my mind anyway...it'll be all surface clipped

 

[comms]

Well I've just had a quick price up of what you want & I wouldn't do it for less than £1385.48 (2 blokes on the job mind).

 

[MightyMouth]

Thanks for the replies, The way the quote is done it with 2 options and is written exactly as follows

CONSUMER UNIT (OPTION 1 )
Supply & install 1x additional 4Way consumer unit with RCD main switch to supply 1x 32A circuit to shed, leaving 3 spare ways for future expansion. £163.50

*Option 2 (IF REQUIRED)
(If you would like us to remove and replace existing fuse box fitting a large enough unit to accommodate the new shed circuit and at least 3x spare ways, please add £155.00+Vat.

CABLING TO SHED
To Supply & install approx 40M 3-core 10mm CSA Armoured Cable, to beclipped to the concrete kick boards along the bottom of the fence from the garage external wall to the shed external wall. (The cable to lie on top of the soil - not buried). Cable to pass through the wall in 10mm T&E Cable to the new consumer unit and into the shed up to small Consumer Unit. £477.00

FRONT PART OF SHED
Supply & install 1x 4 way Consumer Unit with main switch supplying 1x twin indoor socket below Consumer Unit, 1x twin waterproof socket outlet to the front of the shed a 1x 5ft single fluorescent light to the ceiling with a light switch adjacent to the front door. All cabling to be clipped directly to wooden joists. £186.25

REAR PART OF SHED

Supply & install 1x 5ft single fluorescent light to the ceiling with a light switch adjacent to the side door. All Cabling to be clipped Directly to the wooden joists. Supply to be taken from the front light. £72.00


I don't know the details of the decision to go with 10mm but I have measured the distance from the fuse box to the shed including the elevations etc, and it comes to just under 37m. The max that will be running at any one time is 2x 2.4KW kettle elements, a 1kw space heater, the lights and a radio or a laptop. Check my calculations but thats less than 6.5KW total which works out to 28 amps. 10mm cable If the length is 40m * .0044 ohms that works out to 0.176 ohms for the run * 28 amps is 4.9v drop so 10mm should be fine.

My main concern really is can the wire legally be run over the ground clipped to the fence?

 

[MightyMouth]

This is the first quote I have gotten and was not expecting anything this high. I reckon I could do the work myself in under 8 hours

You couldn't.

I could, I worked cabling new houses in Florida for 2 years under a master electrician with no qualifications myself the actual work itself is no problem but I don't know the regulations.

and the materials would cost in the region of £320

They wouldn't.

I priced them myself.

am I way out?

Yes.

Maybe but not for the reasons you say.

I decided to do the work myself and notify the Local Authority before hand, would they OK the work afterwards with the cable clipped to the fence?

You've already said that you could do the work in under eight hours, so how can you not know the answer to this?

As mentioned above I have experience doing the work, but that doesn't mean I know the regulations not withstanding the fact that the regulations are ambiguous.

 

[davy_owen_88]

This is the first quote I have gotten and was not expecting anything this high. I reckon I could do the work myself in under 8 hours

You couldn't.

I could, I worked cabling new houses in Florida for 2 years under a master electrician with no qualifications myself the actual work itself is no problem but I don't know the regulations.

I have to agree with Softus, 8 hours is not long enough for one person to do all the work quoted for properly. You may have 'cabled' houses in your past, but that doesn't mean anything in the UK. In England and Wales you must comply with Part P of the building regulations, which means you are required to inform them before you begin work, and then after first fix they will come along and check you have done things correctly. You then carry out 2nd fix and they come along and inspect and test the work and then issue you with a building control certificate of compliance.

There is absolutely no way this can be done by one man in 8 hours. It's very common for people to set themselves hugely unrealistic time scales to carry out work when they are trying to beat the quote of a qualified tradesman.

And finally, SWA can indeed be run at ground level clipped to a fence but it would be a better idea to clip it a bit higher (12 inches or so) to prevent accidental damage should the ground ever been dug over and also to prevent a cable being covered by leaves/compost/chippings etc as that would leave the cable buried at an unsuitable depth.

 

[MightyMouth]

This is the first quote I have gotten and was not expecting anything this high. I reckon I could do the work myself in under 8 hours

You couldn't.

I could, I worked cabling new houses in Florida for 2 years under a master electrician with no qualifications myself the actual work itself is no problem but I don't know the regulations.

I have to agree with Softus, 8 hours is not long enough for one person to do all the work quoted for properly. You may have 'cabled' houses in your past, but that doesn't mean anything in the UK. In England and Wales you must comply with Part P of the building regulations, which means you are required to inform them before you begin work, and then after first fix they will come along and check you have done things correctly. You then carry out 2nd fix and they come along and inspect and test the work and then issue you with a building control certificate of compliance.

There is absolutely no way this can be done by one man in 8 hours. It's very common for people to set themselves hugely unrealistic time scales to carry out work when they are trying to beat the quote of a qualified tradesman.

And finally, SWA can indeed be run at ground level clipped to a fence but it would be a better idea to clip it a bit higher (12 inches or so) to prevent accidental damage should the ground ever been dug over and also to prevent a cable being covered by leaves/compost/chippings etc as that would leave the cable buried at an unsuitable depth.

Thanks, I was going to suggest clipping at the top of the gravel boards to the contractor.

I really don't think 8 hours is unrealistic there is nothing complicated about the install. What do the regulations say about me running the cable and installing the fixtures with the contractor making the final connections and certifying the job? I know that you cannot certify others work but what if you do the important bits and leave the menial tasks to a labourer (me)?

 

[davy_owen_88]

I really don't think 8 hours is unrealistic there is nothing complicated about the install.

Just curious...

Do you own a set of calibrated test meters?
Do you know how to use them?
Do you know how to interpret the results they give you?
Did you intend on using this test equipment after carrying out the work?
Did you factor the time it will take to perform all the necessary tests into your 8 hour schedule?

 

[Chri5]

Nowhere in the quote does it say "1 x man", he may have a mate- then it's a busy days work.

Mate runs SWA, fixed every 400mm to concrete kick boards. The ground / bed / dirt level could be 10-12" below the top of the kick board.
Battery operated SDS drills make life easier.

Overall the price is good, very good compared to London jobs that I've seen quotes for.

Regarding the SWA and the best place to run.

Ideally under ground, in tube= 40 m dig, 600+ MM down add loads to your quote.

Fencing, if wood is not a suitable fix due to wind damage, weathering of the fence and possibly, the SWA cable weight.

With concrete kick boards you get concrete posts, but just fixing to the posts isn't right due to the distance between the clips along the cable. Horizontal cable path distance for clips is 400mm

That's 100 x fixings

He may have a cunning plan like some sort of angle clip that rests over the top of the concrete board and is a cable tie support system. I'd question him about his methods , make sure it's coming with full certs- main and sub board and bite his hand off if the price is firm.

 

[MightyMouth]

I really don't think 8 hours is unrealistic there is nothing complicated about the install.

Just curious...

Do you own a set of calibrated test meters?
Do you know how to use them?
Do you know how to interpret the results they give you?
Did you intend on using this test equipment after carrying out the work?
Did you factor the time it will take to perform all the necessary tests into your 8 hour schedule?

Nope I don't own anything but a standard multimeter, I assumed that the Local Authority would bring theirs when they came to do their tests. Seriously how much time do you take to test one circuit with 2 double sockets and a couple lights. I do know a thing or 2 about electrical testing, besides new home installs I also spent 4 years in the Air Force as an electro-environmental systems specialist, 2 of which were in depot level maintenance doing complete strip downs, rebuilds and upgrades on A10s and F111s which I think is a bit more complicated than running a bit of T&E so I feel confident I am up to the task particularly when 1 in 5 so called "certified electricians" have probably just taken a 10 day course for that certificate.

 

[MightyMouth]

Nowhere in the quote does it say "1 x man", he may have a mate- then it's a busy days work.

Mate runs SWA, fixed every 400mm to concrete kick boards. The ground / bed / dirt level could be 10-12" below the top of the kick board.
Battery operated SDS drills make life easier.

Overall the price is good, very good compared to London jobs that I've seen quotes for.

Regarding the SWA and the best place to run.

Ideally under ground, in tube= 40 m dig, 600+ MM down add loads to your quote.

Fencing, if wood is not a suitable fix due to wind damage, weathering of the fence and possibly, the SWA cable weight.

With concrete kick boards you get concrete posts, but just fixing to the posts isn't right due to the distance between the clips along the cable. Horizontal cable path distance for clips is 400mm

That's 100 x fixings

He may have a cunning plan like some sort of angle clip that rests over the top of the concrete board and is a cable tie support system. I'd question him about his methods , make sure it's coming with full certs- main and sub board and bite his hand off if the price is firm.

Thanks, that sounds good advice. I am happy to pay a fair amount for a quality job, I just don't like getting ripped off and I know there are plenty of cowboys out there who will quote way too high and a lot of people will just pay it, particularly if the guy is friendly and seems helpful.

As far as fastening clips to concrete do you not use a powder actuated gun as a professional or do you not have those here? I know I would use a hammer drill and screws but surely as Pro would be looking for speed.

 

[hairyben]

Price seems good, I'd probably want a bit more but thats london.

One point that does raise my eyebrow though is the 32A submain feed- whats going on the shed end CU? socket + lighting circuits? radials no good for 5+kW, or if it's a ring, no downstream discression.

There's a lot more that goes into a job then the price of the materials, and evan the materials can vary a lot depending what you use, some cheap stuff is fine, some is total brown smelly.

gotta change a shower tomorrow for someone who reckoned he could do it cheaper himself than I quote I submitted- lasted 5 months then stopped working- creda have been out, voided it's warrenty and condemned his install.

Earlier this year I changed his consumer unit, which was nice and toasty a couple of months after he loosened the busbar while trying to "investigate" the "faulty" mcb that was doing it's job in removing the supply to another piece of his DIY work for which my quote was too high.

wonder if he'll ever learn.

 

[bongos]

You possibly could do the work yourself. But as others have said you need to have the proper test equipment and know how to interpret the results. If your current setup is in a poor state of repair then there may be many faults to rectify before an electrician can replace the CU (hence the mention of a PIR by other posters).

RCD's need testing.
Insulation resistance.
EFLI
PSCC...and that's just some of the tests. Unfortunately a multimeter won't be able to do these.

What kind of incoming supply do you have? Any extraneous parts in the shed? Is the earth being exported to the shed?

do know a thing or 2 about electrical testing, besides new home installs I also spent 4 years in the Air Force as an electro-environmental systems specialist, 2 of which were in depot level maintenance doing complete strip downs, rebuilds and upgrades on A10s and F111s which I think is a bit more complicated than running a bit of T&E so I feel confident I am up to the task particularly when 1 in 5 so called "certified electricians" have probably just taken a 10 day course for that certificate.

I agree fiting twin & earth isn't hard - but there's a bit more to it than that!