Is this the right way to lay a floor?

[Sapper]

Just moved into a new house and the creaking of the floor in the hall and living room has been driving me mad, so I pulled up a board to see what was happening and found this...

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/sapper18/IMG_2655_1.jpg

The floor is laid on 1 inch battens with aeroboard/styrofoam in between for insulation (I suppose), but... the boards themselves are not meeting over these battens, instead most of them meet in between on the aeroboard, bending and flexing over...nothing basically and causing the terrible creaking. The floorboards have been fixed with glue.

This to me seems unacceptable...Is this an allowable way to lay a floor, or is this a "bodge job"? Why not lay plywood sheets down instead of battens and aeroboard?

Is there any way I can take it all up and lay it again properly? Are there any products out there which will "eat away" the glue and let me take up the boards easily and re-use them.

Thanks for any help....

 

[WoodYouLike]

My guess is that too few battens were used, i.e. installed too far apart, causing the boards to flex in the middle.
It's normal for floorboards to end in the middle (or on a quart, 3 quarters etc) of the styrofoam (if the board 'touches' at least 3 battens) otherwise you'll end up with a fixed (looks strange) pattern; but if the battens are too far apart, flexing and creaking can happen.

The battens could have been used (instead of isntalling plywood sheets) to level the underfloor out?

 

[Sapper]

Thanks WoodYouLike - do you know if there is anyway I can take the floorboards up without wrecking them? (they're glued)

 

[big-all]

heeelllooo sapper i take it the flooring is around the 18mm mark as anything thinner is only cladding and not structural

as W U L says the ends must be fully supported otherwise your likely to dammage the t and g on the parralell boards

 

[joe-90]

That flooring doesn't look structural to me. Either way, there is no way to take it up if it is glued. All you can do is hope that the expansion gap is wide enough that you can lift the whole thing as one sheet to get at the sub-floor - then lay it down again in one piece. If the gap isn't wide enough you'll have to run a Skillsaw down one edge.

Personally, I'd skip the lot and start again.

 

[2scoops0406]

as W U L says the ends must be fully supported otherwise your likely to dammage the t and g on the parralell boards

Hmm, don't think she did. To paraphrase, it is quite common for the ends of the boards to lie on the foam as long as they are touching 3 battens. That said, I've been doing some work in a house where the upper floor is covered in T&G chipboard sheets, quite a few of the joints do not meet over the joists, over the years the floor has deflected quite a lot, it is very difficult remedy the situation, because there is often nothing phyically under the boards.

 

[big-all]

as W U L says the ends must be fully supported otherwise your likely to dammage the t and g on the parralell boards

Hmm, don't think she did. To paraphrase, it is quite common for the ends of the boards to lie on the foam as long as they are touching 3 battens. That said, I've been doing some work in a house where the upper floor is covered in T&G chipboard sheets, quite a few of the joints do not meet over the joists, over the years the floor has deflected quite a lot, it is very difficult remedy the situation, because there is often nothing phyically under the boards.

ok correction

as W U L says the ends must be fully supported .
if you dont your likely to dammage the t and g on the parralell boards

 

[WoodYouLike]

Sapper, there isn't a safe way to remove the boards once T&G glued for a longer period.

Lifting the whole lots up and shoving ply underneath to remedy the movement doesn't sound pratical (I imigane a 'floating in the air' heavy load of floorboards joint together, while trying to shove the ply as deep and as far as you can, without sheets getting stuck on the foam or battens, ending up overlapping each other, leaving areas uncovered).
You could try to cut the floor in two or three sheets to remedy it? (also very hard, but more practical than trying to lift the whole lot). Or you'll have to live with the movement, dumping the lot is a shame and waste of materials.

Big-all, Eddie M: ends should be supported by either battens or on the styro as long as the complete board rests on at least 3 battens and the battens are not further apart than 30 - 35 cm, don't 'word-feight' over it

 

[joe-90]

The floorboards in the picture have tongue and groove in the end of the board - so it's obviously some kind of manufactured panel designed to fit on top of a prepared surface.

Dump the lot and start again.

 

[benjique]

they aren't floor boards though are they? that's laminate isn't it? some of that stuff is only around 10mm thick, maybe less, not to be fitted on batons like that, it's bound to bend inbetween.

as said, i'd pull it up and start again

 

[WoodYouLike]

they aren't floor boards though are they? that's laminate isn't it? some of that stuff is only around 10mm thick, maybe less, not to be fitted on batons like that, it's bound to bend inbetween.

Looking at the T&G of the boards in the picture it really looks like solid boards. Laminate (melamine = plastic) has 9 times out of 10 mdf/hdf click-system as T&G, this one doesn't.

 

[benjique]

Not convinced it's timber, looks like an oak laminate to me, maybe wrong, looks like it's been laid on 2 x 1" par too, ok it may have been treated but i doubt it. Should have used lathe if it had to be 1".

I still say that board should have been laid direct to the deck rather than on timbers.

Also, I always cut my joins on a joist, joists or batons should be set at 400mm centres, stagger the joins to avoid any straight joins. Looks like a bodge to me mate,

I'd be interested to know the thickness of the boards though

 

[Thermo]

look at the grain of the exposed tongue and youll see its a carry on of the grain in the face of the board. Must be a solid board

 

[WoodYouLike]

I still say that board should have been laid direct to the deck rather than on timbers.
-------------------
I'd be interested to know the thickness of the boards though

Agree with laying on the deck (floating on proper underlayment) but that might not have been possible here, there's no way for us to see from the picture how the underfloor was.

It's definitely solid IMO and I guess either 14-15 mm or 18-20mm thick.

 

[Sapper]

Sorry - didn't get back to this thread, but to clear it up the boards are 18mm thick solid wood - oak I think. They are pretty sturdy and seem to be able to take the movement, (albeit with a lot of creaking)

As for the gaps between the battens, it looks like about 60cm (you can see where one slab of aeroboard ends just peeking out at the far left of the picture, the next batten butts up against that). WyouL is right though, it would be a real shame to dump it - the floorboards themselves would cost EUR2000 (GBP1333) so I'm either going to have to live with it or cut it in slabs and lift it.

What would I use to cut it? Just a tenon saw? Whats a Skil saw mentioned above...?