It's cold inside in Spain

[joddle]

Hi - I am living in Spain in a very old building which has been extended in the 1950s. The extension is of a typical pillar and concrete floor type using clay infill panels between concrete beams for the floors and roof. Part of our house is on the first floor where there is no building underneath ie it is exposed to the fresh air and here lies our first problem. In summer the floor is lovely and cool but in the recent cold weather the floor is very cold indeed and makes the heating system struggle to keep the room warm. I had concluded it is necessry to insulate the floor from the underneath and wondered what material would be the best. Our local builder has suggested using 100mm expanded polystyrene foam panels glued to the underside of the roof with the yellow spray-on foam - sounds possible but is this the best way to deal with this or is there a better way?

No 2 problem, there is a 14" ventilated space between the plaster ceiling and the flat roof of the building which has a 2" layer of rockwool insulation inside - however we recently put in recesesed ceiling lights and now get a constant draught from the roof space throught the lamp fittings and are no doubt losing a lot of heat into the void above. Is there a good way of stopping this withough haveing to replace all the lamps - and is there any way of blowing! more insulation (ganular perhaps) into the void through the 12 ceiling light holes?

 

[dextrous]

Certainly insulation under the floor will be of use - kingsap, cellotex or whatever the spanish equivalent will be preferential to polystyrene.

If you install fire hoods then this may help withe some of the downdraft problem.

I can't see that spraying loosefill through the holes would be a good idea - it would be too random and may cover cables etc which require not being covered. Think you may have to bite the bullet and install a loft hatch to gain access to get insulation up there.

 

[joddle]

Many thanks to the above contributor - will see what materials are available here. Not too sure on the method of fixing though - is glueing with foam any good?

Here all cables are contained in flexible tubes so the problem of covering them with insulation is not an issue.

 

[dextrous]

Provided the boards are stuck, then it doesn't matter too much what with - plasterboard is increasingly being glued to walls using a low expansion foam adhesive.

Still think that blowing loose fill into the loft sounds a bit hit and miss for my liking. Having said that, and re-reading your opening post, 14" does seem a bit tight for a crawl space, so bin my idea of a loft hatch.

What's the roof covering made of - if tiles then maybe possible to remove some of these to work from above

 

[joddle]

The ceiling space is not really like those in the UK - the ceiling itself is made of 1.5" thick plaster of paris sheets all plastered together to form a single sheet and suspended from the concrete roof by a type of hair covered in what looks like plaster but seems stronger - anyway it is suspended at very regular intervals and too tight to crawl into and as the roof itself is concreted over and access from above is a no-no and would anyway break the waterproof seal.

I will pursue the glueing of the insulation below the floor as this would be quite easy to do - I still think blowing in additional insulation via the lamp holes in the ceiling could help but still wondering on a good way to seal them from the down draft as I cannot really see how your suggested bits could be put into place. Might just push a load of fibre insulation though each hole and use LED lamps so heat would not be an issue - expensive in the short run but probably a good investment longer term anyway!!!

 

[joddle]

Having now spent two weeks looking at this and other forums (is forums correct!) I think the answer to the problem of my downdraughts is to use bathroom rated fittings. These appear to be sealed and so would stop the problem in its tracks. I seem to have no need for fire hoods as the space above is all of non combustable materials. Of course this means I will junk a load of existing fittings (I reckon I got bad ones anyway as the spring spigots keep snapping off) but at least the bulbs can be reused until replaced be LED ones at some stage. Any thoughs on that approach?

 

[RigidRaider]

Yes, bathroom fittings should be better as they seem to be pretty well sealed.

Your floor is ideal for electric heating. I don't think insulating from below will make much difference, TBH. I've also lived in Spain and I know how cold the houses are in winter and how poor at keeping rain out! You might do better just to lay some temporary underlay like the foam sheet that goes under laminate flooring then a carpet on top, just for the winter.

 

[joddle]

Yes, bathroom fittings should be better as they seem to be pretty well sealed.

Your floor is ideal for electric heating. I don't think insulating from below will make much difference, TBH. I've also lived in Spain and I know how cold the houses are in winter and how poor at keeping rain out! You might do better just to lay some temporary underlay like the foam sheet that goes under laminate flooring then a carpet on top, just for the winter.

My many thanks to those above for their comments. I am still convinced however that under-floor insulation will be of assistance. My reasons for this are that over the past few days we have had some dramatic changes in temperature (0 - 25 deg in less than a week) and the floor has reflected this by being very cold when the outside weather was near freezing rising to quite warm only a day or two later thus proving there is severe conduction through the floor. Insulation I am sure will help reduce that. I might just try the temporary insulation idea suggested to prove the point though.

True, under-floor heating might have been a possible solution but it is too late for that now as the floor is band new tiles laid on the cement covered infill block surface. I don’t think I would have gone for it anyway as we have installed air conditioning which doubles up as heating and having two sources of heat seems a bit of a waste now - and of course as the rooms are bederoom the heat is not required for very long anyway.

 

[RigidRaider]

I've been colder than at any time in my life when I've found myself in the Middle East or Spain in cold weather - their heating is so inadequate and their houses so badly insulated. I remember four days in an apartment in Tunisia in January; the water was solar heated so it was just on the tepid side of freezing and the bed was piled high with miserable damp blankets.

 

[joddle]

I've been colder than at any time in my life when I've found myself in the Middle East or Spain in cold weather - their heating is so inadequate and their houses so badly insulated. I remember four days in an apartment in Tunisia in January; the water was solar heated so it was just on the tepid side of freezing and the bed was piled high with miserable damp blankets.

You are not wrong about Spanish properties - we live in a 400 year old house and at least the walls are thick and so keep the heat. The newer parts extended in the 1970s though are very poor quality and no insulation so when we nodernised I built false interior walls with insulation between the outer walls and the room and also insulated the roof space which does make a huge diference,

 

[RigidRaider]

We are constantly urged to insulate our houses to keep the heat IN but I wonder how much gas and pollution could be saved if people in hot countries built thir houses to the same standard of insulation to keep the heat OUT and reduce their use of ACs?

 

[harleythedog]

My friend has winter carpets in Portugal. Cor it gets cold there in winter. one open fire in december and two electric heaters... useless.

They are looking at interal wall insulation this year. Foam backed plaster board.