Junction Box / Wago Connecters

[loopy66]

As per some previous posts, I have a ring main extension ready to cut in once I can get the spark booked to fit me a new consumer unit.

In the meantime I have just one socket downstairs to add so am looking to cut that in before that. I can't spur it as I intend to spur off this new socket at a later date so it needs to be in the ring main itself.

I have a 32A junction box and can I cut it in like in the diagram? (the brown lines are the exisitng wires, the purple is the new. the dotted brown line is the bit that will be removed). Is this absolutely how to do this or do I need a junction box on both sides?

The reason I am getting unsure is the more I read about maintenance free and Wago; the junction box will go under a floorboard but will be easy accessible, it will be cut and just screwed back down but some say that Wago boxes are absolutely needed and you need two of them?

 

[EFLImpudence]

In the meantime I have just one socket downstairs to add so am looking to cut that in before that. I can't spur it as I intend to spur off this new socket at a later date so it needs to be in the ring main itself.

You could if you use 4mm² T&E.

I have a 32A junction box and can I cut it in like in the diagram? (the brown lines are the exisitng wires, the purple is the new. the dotted brown line is the bit that will be removed). Is this absolutely how to do this or do I need a junction box on both sides?

You don't need a junction box if removing the existing cable between the existing sockets.

The reason I am getting unsure is the more I read about maintenance free and Wago; the junction box will go under a floorboard but will be easy accessible, it will be cut and just screwed back down but some say that Wago boxes are absolutely needed and you need two of them?

They must be in an enclosure anyway.
Is that accessible? Would anyone else know it was there?

An alternative:
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ASJ803.html

 

[loopy66]

As an image example, the attached pictures show the actual sockets and the wiring that goes under the floor I have roughly drawn on.

The socket on the left is on the current ring main and the cables shown in red is roughly how they are connected. The socket on the right is the socket I want to add to the ring main.

As the existing cable won't reach to the socket on the right I was looking to insert the junction box and cabling as shown in purple.

Is this correct and I could simply use that junction box in your post, https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ASJ803.html to do this?

 

[EFLImpudence]

You don't need a junction box.

You can just use connector blocks in the back box of the left socket.

 

[loopy66]

Does this picture make sense when using the connector block option? Basically, use a connecter block and store it in the patress box in the socket on the left?

Alternatively, I could use the MF junction box in your post and i'd just need one of them?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Does this picture make sense when using the connector block option? Basically, use a connecter block and store it in the patress box in the socket on the left?

Yes.

Alternatively, I could use the MF junction box in your post and i'd just need one of them?

There is no point.

 

[loopy66]

Doesn't the connector block option require 4 cables into one pattress box? I am not saying this is a bad option of course, just getting clarity, whereas the junction box keeps two cables per patress and less "stuff" inside? As I will spur off this box shortly that would mean 5 cables in one patress if using the connecter block option.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Doesn't the connector block option require 4 cables into one pattress box?

Yes.

I am not saying this is a bad option of course, just getting clarity, whereas the junction box keeps two cables per patress and less "stuff" inside?

So? It's better than a JB hidden under the floor unnecessarily.

As I will spur off this box shortly that would mean 5 cables in one patress if using the connecter block option.

Why will you be spurring off it?

Why would you not extend the ring for this socket as well?

 

[loopy66]

The spur is because I will be adding another socket in the area near to this but, right now I cannot distrupt too much in the room, I would have to fully replaster a wall at the very least to route it but a spur I can just straight line chisel for a single cable and patch. Basically it really needs to be a quickest most least disruptive job to cover short to mid term.

The connector block option I am clear you feel it is the best and I probably will do it like this, despite the number of cables into the same socket it does make everything accessible. Having said that, can I be clear if the junction box example under the floor is also correct under the regulations and that I wouldn't need two of them? This is more of an education excercise if the junction box is allowed rather than wiser.

 

[EFLImpudence]

The spur is because I will be adding another socket in the area near to this but, right now I cannot distrupt too much in the room, I would have to fully replaster a wall at the very least to route it but a spur I can just straight line chisel for a single cable and patch. Basically it really needs to be a quickest most least disruptive job to cover short to mid term.

Ok.

The connector block option I am clear you feel it is the best and I probably will do it like this, despite the number of cables into the same socket it does make everything accessible. Having said that, can I be clear if the junction box example under the floor is also correct under the regulations and that I wouldn't need two of them? This is more of an education excercise if the junction box is allowed rather than wiser.

It is allowed by the regulations, yes, so are any number of them, but that does not mean it is a good idea if avoidable.


For some reason, DIYers seem to love junction boxes.

 

[loopy66]

Just to complete the knowledge here, is it just those Wagos that need two boxes on a ring extension?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Not sure what that means.
No junction boxes are required for a ring extension.

Ideally, you would replace the cable if too short from the previous socket to the new socket but obviously this might involve more work.

As I said in my first reply, you could just run a spur in 4mm² cable to as many sockets as you want if no thermal insulation is involved.
If both legs of a ring run in the same place then there is no point having a ring, you might as well run it as a spur of two 2.5mm² cables - i.e. a 5mm² spur (so 4mm² would do if no thermal insulation involved).

The ring is an outdated concept unless your sockets are actually in a circular formation.

 

[loopy66]

The reason I was asking two would be needed (if of course a junction box was used) is due to posts like this : https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/102559/can-i-use-wago-connectors-to-extend-a-ring-main

I see they seem to be talking about 20A Wago boxes which firstly confused me why they'd use them on a ring main but also I see other posts when searching around saying similar things where Wago is rated at 32A. Just makes it confusing.

 

[EFLImpudence]

The reason I was asking two would be needed (if of course a junction box was used) is due to posts like this : https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/102559/can-i-use-wago-connectors-to-extend-a-ring-main

Well, if you are going to do it like that then you will need two.

If you can get at the sockets then replace the cable.
If you only want to add a single socket (as diagram) then use one box and a spur.

I see they seem to be talking about 20A Wago boxes

The boxes are just containers. It depends what is in them. Are they not meaning the connectors?
I have not much experience of Wagos.

The boxes I linked to are different ratings.

These with three connectors are 32A

These with four are 20A because they will get warmer.

But the boxes are exactly the same.

which firstly confused me why they'd use them on a ring main

You only need 20A accessories on a ring because there are 2 cables sharing the load.

but also I see other posts when searching around saying similar things where Wago is rated at 32A. Just makes it confusing.

There are various ratings of all sorts of things.