kitchen socket safety

[mik118]

View media item 89319
Could anybody tell me if the picture attached is a spur running from a spur? The white square box is running from a double socket above the worktop, the wire then runs from the square box to another double socket which is pictured. There is then another wire from that socket that is wired to another double socket. It doesn't seem right to me and I'm hoping someone might be able to confirm or deny this?
First time poster on the forum hence the new member icon.
Kitchen has been wired like this for 6+ years only noticed this as I was going to add a dishwasher to the socket

 

[JohnD]

no, because we don't know what cables, if any, enter the double socket from behind or from the left.

 

[mik118]

Only the two wires visible enter/exit the box

 

[JohnD]

then it is probably a spur or a radial. You will have to follow the cables to see where they go. We can't tell if the FCU is a load or a supply.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

There is a good chance that the socket (not pictured) at lower level is of the original socket circuit and those accessory plates pictured (double socket and flex plate) have been added on. Whether they are spurs, would depend on the type of circuit they have been taken from.
But we also have to consider the other worktop socket and whether this completes a ring final circuit or whether that is the end of the circuit/part of spurred configuration.

You could have a radial circuit and if the lower socket is the last socket on the radial then, you don't have any spurs, just the circuit has been extended.
If not the end of the radial then you have spurs, which could be permitted.
If it was a ring final circuit, then only one spur would be allowed from a socket off the true ring.

It it not always simple determining what type of circuit you have, would normally require some investigating and possibly some testing of the circuit.

In theory you would expect to find a radial circuit to be protected by 30A-32A device on 4.00mm2 cable or 15A-20A on 2.5mm2 cable.
And the ring final 30A-32A on 2.5mm2 cable.
The radial would have only one set of cables terminated at the board and the ring would have two sets of cables. But that would be in an ideal situation, which is not always as they are found!

 

[mik118]

The socket that is attached to the grey wire that leaves the bottom of the double socket pictured has no other wires so I know that it is the end. Above the worktop is from the ring main, I haven't checked the wires but I believe there are three wires. This led me to believe I have a spur running from a spur running from the flex plate which is running from the ring main.

I think I will have to get this checked out by a professional as I'm planning to add another appliance to this set

 

[Taylortwocities]

So this is the view under the worktop.
Is there an FCU above the worktop that controls the on/off of the doubles socket underneath?

What is the plate to the right of the double socket for, what does it connect to?

Cannot guess at what is going on here, without seeing the wiring behind everything and haviong answers to the above.

 

[mik118]

Two wires run from the ring main above the ceiling to the Socket above the worktop which is a double socket, it has no control over anything below, from that socket there is one wire which is buried in the wall which runs to the plate. A single wire out of the plate runs to the double socket to the left of it (this is what is visible in the picture) then a single wire runs from that double socket to another double socket and the wire ends at that point. Not sure if the plate is fused but I don't think it is. Confirmed wires in back of sockets just now which to me confirms the plate is the first part of the spur then two further sockets before it ends the spur, which I believe is Un safe?

 

[deadshort]

Hi, if you remove the fuse from the"plate'' and the sockets under the worktop don't work, that's safe. But not a tidy job!


Regards,

DS

 

[mik118]

If I understand you correctly I can replace the plate for a fused plate? Sorry I don't know the correct terminology just going by what people have replied with. I presume the fuse stops the sockets from overloading the original spur?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Are you assuming this circuit is a ring final or have you actually proved/have evidence to prove this. Do not automatically rule out that the possibility of it being a radial.

If it were a ring and the feed socket with two sets of cables in, were configured as described, then yes the blank plate could be changed to 13A fused connection to protect the cable, but you would be restricted to a maximum of 13A full load from that point.

As it is a kitchen socket circuit, I would be considering the possibility of extending the ring rather than spurring from it.

 

[mik118]

Thanks. Yes it is a ring circuit except these sockets. Until today it had been running a washing machine, tumble dryer, fridge and freezer all from that spur, which I'm sure would have gone above 13amps at some point in 6 years..
I might try to reduce the load on this set of sockets and add a fused connection for the time being when the kitchen is replaced down the line I can re visit the sockets when the room is stripped down

 

[deadshort]

Hi, you have been very lucky !


DS

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I would expect both W/M and dryer to be rated at 10-13A each, fridge/freezers will be much less of a current draw, but the start up current will be higher.
It could be possible that you are drawing less than 27A which 2.5mm2 twin and earth can handle in ideal conditions. But it is also possible that you are drawing slightly higher than that.
But considering you have a flex connection extending this circuit, I doubt that is rated suitable for this type of current draw. So I agree, you have so far been very lucky. There is a potential fire risk as it stands, given the details you have presented us with, thus far.

 

[mik118]

Yes I think I have been lucky. I'm only going to run one thing at a time until I can extend the ring main to cover this socket then the other spur should be Ok running from that. Thank you for your opinions and answers they have helped alot