Kitchen tap connector "came apart" and flooded

[ClockPie]

Finished kitchen early 2017 and its pretty good. Lovely engineered oak floor..... Fortunately I went over existing tiles (with insulation above, then EUFH, then floor). The old owners didn't tile under the units (lazy gits) - but now grateful.....

The kitchen tap came with flexible connectors with threaded connection, which I fitted to "flat face" isolator valves. All good for 2 years.

Fortunately, after being away for easter, and being out this evening, when we were in the kitchen we heard water pouring out... Fortunately, the main stop-cock was left accessible.

Turned out the flexible tap connector dismantled itself and "popped out" the but that goes onto the isolator valve! Fortunately we stopped it before the flood hit the floor - and it just filled the recess (to the brim) of the missing tiles. How lucky!!!

The pressure is fine (quite low) - so just looks like a defect.

Will be replacing the other! They came with the tap...…

How common is this, as its the first "fault" we've had like this, and does worry - had it happened on Friday we'd have been totally flooded - and with hot water! Would've f*ked up the entire house! (unlimited hot water (combi)/steam etc).

May now turn off water at meter more frequently!

Now to find branded replacements.....

 

[just pumps]

Whilst not saying it is the reason the connection failed, no PTFE tape is required at those connections. Reason for failure could and I stress could, be because the pipe was under too much stress.

 

[JimCrow]

Unwind the couple of rolls of PTFE tape you have on the valves and take it back to the shop for a refund, you don't need it there.

 

[ClockPie]

Fortunately, not the cause. The connection that pulled out had rusted (!). Out of site, so not seen.

Ok, that's two of you saying no PTFE. I totally agree with the logic as the olive should be the seal - but I was always taught (by father, not a plumber) to use PTFE on the threads. And I have had olive-based compression joints leak and needed more ptfe on thread (or, in hindsight, was it just that the connection was undone and done back up again rather than the PTFE?)

That "valve" is 15mm olive compression onto copper at the bottom, and "flat" on the top where the tap connector is, that had a washer.

Without sounding an idiot (but happy to listen/learn) - which of those should have PTFE? From the comments above I'd assume none - but in which case where is PTFE used? Is it only on, say, screw-in threaded connections (like into radiators)?

 

[just pumps]

So no chance the joint was stressed, started to leak which caused the rust then.
Yep ptfe tape is for threaded joints only which a compression joint isn't.

 

[ClockPie]

So no chance the joint was stressed, started to leak which caused the rust then.
Yep ptfe tape is for threaded joints only which a compression joint isn't.

Never say never - I will say when fitted, it wasn't forced and didn't feel stressed - but clearly could've been and I get your point (I think) if the nut was stressed and caused a gentle leak then could be the cause. eBay tat tap connections could also be the cause.

Thanks for pointing out the correct way. If you'd like to tell my dad I'd appreciate it.

I'll be honest, I've always wondered why you put PTFE on the threads and how it'd stop leaks - but just doing what I was told!

(Whilst I'm being kindly re-educated, do you put any "gunk" on the olives nowadays?)

PS - genuinely - thanks for correcting me.


edit: Googling confirms you are right, thank you (I was expecting you to be!), but suggests using PTFE over old olives if being reused and it weeps. Would you go along with that, or some other magic paste? (For future reference!)

edit2: Just checking - on a hot pipe (which gets hot/cold/hot etc) would the constant expansion/contraction loosen the nut over time or does it stay put if olive is compressed correctly? *logically* the ptfe on thread does (may?) act as thread-loc?

 

[just pumps]

Opening up a can of worms here as different guys operate differently, my way is nothing on a new joint and two wraps of tape over olive if old joint. Others will paste the olive.

 

[ClockPie]

Opening up a can of worms here as different guys operate differently, my way is nothing on a new joint and two wraps of tape over olive if old joint. Others will paste the olive.

Thanks. What paste? Googling oiive paste gives ideas for tea!

Can't believe I've been doing it wrong for a long time. I won't show you photo of the rest of the under sink plumbing lol

 

[just pumps]

Jet Blue is one I hear mentioned

 

[flameport]

What paste?

https://fernox.com/product/water-hawk/

The flexible tap connectors have a rubber washer in the end, no PFTE, paste or anything else required. That's also why you need the correct thing to fix them to which has flat ends. Using a connector designed for an olive will slice into the rubber and cause a leak.

Compression joints never need anything on the threads, as the threads do not form the seal. They are only there to hold the other components together.
Jointing compound or PFTE over the olive might be useful in some situations.

 

[ClockPie]

https://fernox.com/product/water-hawk/

The flexible tap connectors have a rubber washer in the end, no PFTE, paste or anything else required. That's also why you need the correct thing to fix them to which has flat ends. Using a connector designed for an olive will slice into the rubber and cause a leak.

Compression joints never need anything on the threads, as the threads do not form the seal. They are only there to hold the other components together.
Jointing compound or PFTE over the olive might be useful in some situations.

Thanks - great info.
The connector (isolator valve) was correct, it had flat ends specifically for the tap connectors.

All the tap connectors I can find now end in compression joints (eg https://www.screwfix.com/p/flexible...1htrXLRnpS718xJ36EIaArYfEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds ) rather than flat? Or am I searching for the wrong thing. Also think the tails are currently 450mm

So tomorrow I was planning on replacing with the linked tap connectors, and replacing the isolator valve with a standard 15mm x 15mm compression, and 150mm of copper pipe to reach the shorter tails. (Without PTFE )

Unless I can find 450mm ones with a flat connector

(I have screwfix, toolstation, TP, BB within 1/4 mile ).




EDIT: **thanks all** really appreciate you all giving advice, much appreciated and taken on board. Off to bed now, will get this all fixed tomorrow.

 

[Gasguru]

You'll find them on ebay and amazon but pay silly money for dubious quality.
Use a 1/2 MI coupling instead ie. 1/2 male thread to 15mm compression and join it onto a standard isolating valve.

 

[ClockPie]

You'll find them on ebay and amazon but pay silly money for dubious quality.
Use a 1/2 MI coupling instead ie. 1/2 male thread to 15mm compression and join it onto a standard isolating valve.

Agree entirely, and will do.
(without PTFE )

 

[Madrab]

Must say I've never seen any ISO valves with a compression fitting on both ends come with a flat face and I've seen a few All ISO valves that have compression fittings both ends will have sharp fluted ends for the olive to sit in.

You can easily file one end flat though, they are brass so are nice and soft and file quickly and easily and then they can be used to connect a tap connector directly to it without cutting into the rubber washer. Then it's just finger tight and a 1/4 turn. Do it all the time, saves on extra fittings.

 

[ClockPie]

Must say I've never seen any ISO valves with a compression fitting on both ends come with a flat face and I've seen a few All ISO valves that have compression fittings both ends will have sharp fluted ends for the olive to sit in.

You can easily file one end flat though, they are brass so are nice and soft and file quickly and easily and then they can be used to connect a tap connector directly to it without cutting into the rubber washer. Then it's just finger tight and a 1/4 turn. Do it all the time, saves on extra fittings.

Tell me - I hunted high and low to buy them! But on the bay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Male-Iro...hash=item28709c8bfc:m:mEuGEPA9qIiLE-92uIKDoEQ