Kitchen Tiling - adhesive??

[rockmonkey78]

I have just started the process of retiling the kitchen floor (with ceramic tiles). I have remove the old tiles (which were sound, just a bit old) and have discovered the flooring underneath is mostly chipboard and a little bit of floorboard.

I realise that removing the chipboard is the best plan but its not an option as it goes under kitchen cabinets and neither is the floorboard as it goes into livingroom under carpet. I don't want to overboard as this will leave a step into livingroom

What adhesive do I need to use to have the best chance of success, I assumed a flexible one, any particular brand (mapei keraflex or keraquick+latex or bal). I only have approx 3m2 to do and it really my first tiling project.

Any help and advice is very much appreciated.

RB

RB

 

[Richard C]

I assume this is a suspended timber floor over joists? I’m surprised the old tiles were sound if laid over chip. I would never tile directly over chip or even overboard it, I always replace it; even timber floorboards should be re-fixed & over boarded or you risk early failure. I would advise you remove & replace the chip with something more suitable (it’s not that difficult) &, in a high traffic/load area such as a kitchen, that would be 22mm or even 25mm WBP ply depending on floor joist size/pitch/span. 12mm overboard, either WBP ply or a decent tile backer board, may work but I wouldn’t risk it.

There are no shortcuts when tiling suspended timber floors, they must be of a suitable material (& chip board isn’t suitable) & very rigid with no perceptible movement. The adhesive brands you mention are all good quality but I wouldn’t risk it even with latex (it’s also very expensive). The Tiling Forum archive has many sad tales of tile failure due to unsuitable/poor floor preparation. I would advise you have a read through the Tiling Sticky & Tiling Forum Archive before doing any work or buying materials, it could prevent you making disastrous & potentially expensive mistakes.

 

[tpt]

Richard is absolutely bang on. doesnt matter what adhesive you use its the flex in the subfloor that will cause a problem.

The only adhesive i know that has sufficient flexibility to be used on boards etc is granfix ultimate flex. this will stick to the floor but remember it wont stop your tiles cracking - as they cant flex !

 

[rockmonkey78]

I assume this is a suspended timber floor over joists? I’m surprised the old tiles were sound if laid over chip. I would never tile directly over chip or even overboard it, I always replace it; even timber floorboards should be re-fixed & over boarded or you risk early failure. I would advise you remove & replace the chip with something more suitable (it’s not that difficult) &, in a high traffic/load area such as a kitchen, that would be 22mm or even 25mm WBP ply depending on floor joist size/pitch/span. 12mm overboard, either WBP ply or a decent tile backer board, may work but I wouldn’t risk it." =quote]


Richard C, yes it is a suspended wooden floor. The chipboard feels pretty solid as it only covers approx 2mx2m area. Would a tile backer board work in this situation if the floor is pretty stiff?

If I was to remove the chipboard what's the best way to do this as it is laid under the cabinets. Just replace the sections that will be tiled? How do you actually get the old chipboard up?

This was suppose to be a straightforward job but it doesn't sound like it going to be

 

[tpt]

A tile backer board would certainly help matters. use something like no-more ply http://www.nomoreply.net/overboarding TIMBER.htm and follow the instructions shown. then you can use a single part flexi adhesive and grout.
this will only add 6mm of height.

 

[Richard C]

Unless you’re revamping the kitchen then removing the cabinets to get the floor up is not really going to be practical. You could cut the chip back just behind the plinth line & install noggins to support the edge of the new floor but that is going to be a lot of work & a bit of a dogs breakfast & someone will end up having to replace it again when the kitchen eventually get a make over.

Just for info, I use a Scorpion saw to cut through floorboards;
http://www.google.co.uk/products/ca...i=QXJXTpOoE4TLhAeQ7sUi&sqi=2&ved=0CGUQ8gIwAg#
It’s very good for cutting out individual floor boards down the centre line of a joist or cutting tight against skirting but chipboard knocks the blades out rather quickly. With chipboard, smashing a few holes though it with a lump hammer & ripping it up with a crow bar is just as effective but whatever method is used you need to keep a running check on the location of pipes & cables.

A decent tile backer board may be the only practical solution for you. Although I’d be reasonably happy with 6mm board over proper 18mm timber floorboards, I would be unhappy with it over the chip. If floor replacement isn’t possible I would go for 12mm board in which case, I’d probably stick with WBP ply of the same thickness. In a kitchen, I wouldn’t be giving any grantees with either &, I think you’ll find, neither will the adhesive manufacturer.

Whatever you do make sure the existing boards are well fixed down, add additional fixings if necessary & fix through into the joist where possible not just into the top of the old floorboards; again check out location of any pipes & cables first.