LED Downlighter replacement - questions

[Foss13]

Hi, we had a new kitchen extension done around 5 years ago with plenty of LED downlighters. I asked the electrician at the time how to change the bulbs but he was a bit vague and implied that they would last for many years. So….the first one has now failed. A bit of investigation showed me that the whole unit has to be replaced. A bit of fiddling got it down from the ceiling and I found a nice red connector, unclipped it and went on the internet to order a new one. However, it seems Aurora AU-FRLD811/30s are no longer available anywhere. I’ve found …811/40s on Amazon that look identical but apparently the ‘40‘ refers to the light type ‘cool white’.
The bulb like reflector is easy to remove, bringing me to the first question - is this what determines the light type? If so I could get the 40 and just use the old reflector?
Next question is if any other downlighter replacements use the same connector.
Photo attached

 

[flameport]

Those are integrated affairs, which means when they fail, the whole lot has to be replaced creating as much e-waste as possible.
The colour of light is determined by the LED module itself (the yellow square in the centre).

The connector is irrelevant - those lights are 230V AC input, so that connector can be removed and attached to any other 230V AC light fitting. Preferably one that uses replaceable GU10 lamps.

 

[Foss13]

Thanks, that’s useful information. I agree that it doesn’t seem like a great idea from the sustainability perspective…
I’ll just search for something that matches the detachable bezel on the originals. Even my limited electrical skills can transfer the connector. I don’t think fire protection is an issue because this part of the ceiling has a room above - so no insulation in there.

 

[Taylortwocities]

. I don’t think fire protection is an issue because this part of the ceiling has a room above - so no insulation in there.

The need for fire-rated fittings is only a requirement if the ceiling is a fire barrier.
The presence of insulation and rooms above have no bearing.

 

[Foss13]

Apologies - I had in my head something about insulation over the fitting being a potential problem.

 

[flameport]

Insulation over light fittings can be a problem as it causes them to overheat and stop working. Manufacturers will specify a minimum space above and to the sides of a downlight to avoid that.

Fire rated downlights are designed to resist fire for a certain amount of time, so that when your house is on fire, that fire is contained in the room for 30, 60 or 90 minutes before spreading to other rooms via the holes in the ceiling.
This allows persons elsewhere in the building time to escape.

 

[Risteard]

Insulation over light fittings can be a problem as it causes them to overheat and stop working. Manufacturers will specify a minimum space above and to the sides of a downlight to avoid that.

Fire rated downlights are designed to resist fire for a certain amount of time, so that when your house is on fire, that fire is contained in the room for 30, 60 or 90 minutes before spreading to other rooms via the holes in the ceiling.
This allows persons elsewhere in the building time to escape.

This is one of the reasons I use integrated recessed luminaires over GU10 fittings. With H2 Lites all luminaires are suitable for installation in thermal insulation or near combustible materials. To me it's a no brainer. I wouldn't entertain GU10s anymore.

 

[Taylortwocities]

On the other hand, the reason I no longer use integrated fittings is that manufacturers change the design of their downlights. This means that (like the OP) should one fail a few years after installation, a replacement often has a different look, and/or light output than the original.
Have had this issue with a couple of manufacturers (Scolmore & Aurora) where I have needed replacements, when they cannot provide direct replacements, even when the light is covered by a warranty.

 

[SimonH2]

Or, improve the lighting quality dramatically by replacing with surface mount "bulkhead" fittings with a good diffuser. I'd suggest (for example) any of these would provide better light than downlighters. There is an argument for getting a 2D flouro unit and retrofitting an LED conversion - that way, the light emitter is a separate part that can be changed without changing the appearance fo the fitting and avoids the obsolescence problem.
In our kitchen, I replaced one of the many glow worms with a simple (and cheap) 10W bulkhead just to show SWMBO what a difference it makes - it does more for that end of the kitchen than the other half a dozen downlighters in that area. When she'd decided that yes it was a lot better, I found that model was discontinued - but then it was cheap so it can go in the "pile of bits that'll find another use some day" and be replaced when I get around to doing more of them. I reckon just 3 of those will be far far better than the dozen little glowworms.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

In our kitchen, I replaced one of the many glow worms with a simple (and cheap) 10W bulkhead just to show SWMBO what a difference it makes - it does more for that end of the kitchen than the other half a dozen downlighters in that area. When she'd decided that yes it was a lot better, I found that model was discontinued - but then it was cheap so it can go in the "pile of bits that'll find another use some day" and be replaced when I get around to doing more of them. I reckon just 3 of those will be far far better than the dozen little glowworms.

Similar here. We suffered for years with downlighters, fashionable, but not really practical. They were such a poor working light, I supplemented them with a flourescent up lighter on top of cupboards. Now replaced with a pair of simple dome LED units, which simply plug into the base. They cost me around £6 each on ebay, I wasn't expecting much so bought two, plus two spares, but they have been in use several years now. Great light, nice even spread and only around 8w each.

 

[ericmark]

Picture of inside a GU10 lamp showing two slightly different coloured LED's one warm white, the other cool white and the software alters the power to each chip to adjust output from warm to cool, this is a smart lamp, so one can change the colour with the app.

I have not had many LED lamps fail, the above is really an odd one out, but as far as down lights go, the ceiling needs to be very high and it needs some thing to spread the light, some form of diffuser, these GU10 lamps above my stairs use glass balls to diffuse the light, and also look good with colour changing bulbs however the big question is if the light is to see by, or decoration, and we often combine the two, even if a 5 foot fluorescent may give a better light to 16 down lighters, the 16 down lighters do look better, however if for decoration we do want them all the same, and it is clearly easier to renew 16 GU10 lamps than 16 integral lamps when you find you can't get a matching replacement, and with GU10 they are a standard fitting, so likely they can be used else where.

Seem to remember there was going to be an EU law to stop having non serviceable light fittings, but we are no longer in the EU.