Led downlighters in bathroom 1 bulb keeps failing

[moneypenny]

Hello all,

I have recently had LED down lighters installed in my bathroom, replacing halogen. Above the shower is a light/extractor which is fine but the down light closest to the shower keeps failing, the electrician replaced it free of charge, a few days later it failed again.

I left it for while before buying bulb no 3 but then it occurred to me that this could be caused by moisture and maybe I should call the the electrician for advice, he dismissed my theory saying LED are rubbish (didn't tell me that before he fitted them) he changed the bulb again but this time I paid.

The bulbs fitted are saxby GU10 part no: 43581, they have a decorative edge which would clearly let any moisture into the roof space, unlike the extractor light there is no glass between the fitting and the bulb.

The halogens I replaced, which I now regret, had glass and a rubber seal in the fitting, should this also apply to LED bathroom lights? I should probably say the latest replacement bulb is different in as much as it does not have this decorative silver edge and fits much more snugly into the fitting. He said if it fails again he will change the fitting.

The lights are not fire rated nor are any fire hoods fitted, but there seems to be different opinions about this even amongst electricians according to some forums, the ceiling has been over boarded.

Any advice helpful, thanks in advance

 

[stem]

I find that some LED's need to be connected to a driver that provides a constant current and that the lamps to be wired in series. Others seem to need a constant voltage transformer and are wired in parallel, whilst others are connected directly to the 230v supply.

Recently a friend of mine had some LED lights installed in a pelmet over a mirror. He replaced one and it failed again very quickly. When I looked at the instructions, it stated that the lights should be wired in series with the driver, otherwise the life on the lamps would be greatly reduced.

So if you have a driver/transformer, check the instructions to make sure that you have the correct one and that the lights are wired in the correct configuration.

Edit: just found the details of the saxby lamp you mention and see that it is 230v, so you can ignore the above.

 

[moneypenny]

Thanks Stem, so you don't think it is the moisture; it is quite close to a very steamy shower.

 

[pjcomp]

Wouldn't want to rule out the moisture effect - from what you've said it sounds as though bathroom-rated fittings (note:the fitting, not the light bulb) which were sealed against steam, have been replaced with fittings that aren't bathroom-rated. that being the case you could be getting steam around the lamp, condensing on it and shorting out the electronics

 

[ban-all-sheds]

And you could also be getting condensation in the loft, which will in time rot it.

 

[Porque223]

the down light closest to the shower keeps failing, the electrician replaced it free of charge, a few days later it failed again.

This light may be the canary in the coal mine and the farther ones may also soon fail, apparently due to inadequate moisture protection.
A failure this soon probably indicates a severe problem, given how long these are supposed to last.

 

[moneypenny]

Thanks a lot,

You have confirmed my suspicions the lights are not bathroom fittings and moisture is shorting it out. The guy who fitted them is Part P registered and been doing this for years, I have used him before and got the correct paper work I am surprised at this.

But he clearly did not like me pointing out to him my suspicions about the moisture, I am a woman an old one at that 'how very dare I' ? He knows well enough what the problem is.

Thanks again

 

[Iggifer]

just typed a big post about insulation then realised that's totally not the issue

you want fittings with a glass lens that has a rubber ring around it - like your old ones. There was no reason that you could not have simply put LED lamps in the existing fittings.

Either get him back to change them for suitable fittings and discuss a fair price considering he didn't install the correct fittings, or cut your losses and use somebody else

something like this: http://www.screwfix.com/p/jcc-fireg...ssed-shower-downlight-brsh-chrome-240v/68681# is fine, and you can just swap the halogen lamp for a decent LED lamp and you'll have no problems

 

[Porque223]

Another way to handle this may be to use conformally coated electronics in the fixture but the LED itself may need special treatment.

Regards to 007!

 

[moneypenny]

I would love to give your regards to 007 but he pre deceased me a few years ago.

I have spoken to a very nice man at my local council Building Regulations. I don't need fire rated downlights or fire hoods in a pitched roof space with no fire rated plaster board, and LED lights run cool anyway. I just need to fit IP rated bathroom fittings with lense and rubber seal and make sure the insulation is tidy and clear of lights. I know B&Q sell metal tubes for this purpose I bought a couple a while back,pack of 2 for about £7.00.

As popping out the lights and not touching the electric supply wouldn't be breaching regs. don't necessarily need electrician to replace fittings, in fact I could do that, or get in our local odd job man, don't need regs to fit a lampshade do I !!!

So yes thanks iggifer my old fittings would have done nicely, but I disposed of them because the chrome on a couple of them had seen better days.

So nice cup of tea now and off to buy recessed IP rated fittings from a reputable electrical supplier not risking a DIY shed on this one.

Thanks all.

 

[bernardgreen]

and LED lights run cool anyway

Some run cool, but some actually get hot.

reputable electrical supplier not risking a DIY shed on this one.

Sensible.

By the way 007 told me the quality of Q went down when he linked up in business with that chap B ( who ever he was )

 

[ban-all-sheds]

He was the guy with the cat, I think.

 

[moneypenny]

Well now, 007 is just the licence no: to kill, so there could be loads of them out there, you see my 007 wasn't called Mr Bond.

Any how, Napit say it is not necessary to have ip rated downlights in bathrooms if the lights are GU10 LED. It is possible that some moisture is getting in there if it is a particularly steamy shower which it is, and I like it hot! So their advice is always use extractor keep your eye on it and if it goes again just ask him to come back and change the fitting.

He already said he would do that if it happened again so I guess that is the end of the matter the guy is competent after all.

 

[EFLImpudence]

but I disposed of them because the chrome on a couple of them had seen better days.

Are you perhaps being unfair?

The environment has ruined the chrome so what will it do to the rest of the fitting(s)?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Chrome plating is porous - depending on what the base metal is it could be utterly unsuitable for bathrooms.

Stainless steel is better.