Light Sphere, is that the new name to replace light bulb?

Joined
27 Jan 2008
Messages
24,090
Reaction score
2,742
Location
Llanfair Caereinion, Nr Welshpool
Country
United Kingdom
1719829676934.png
There has been a faction who say bulbs grow in the ground for years, however what other name can we use? Lamp, Fitting and luminaire covers the whole item, we have fitted lamps onto spigots, with oil lamps for years, and still do, I watch them changing the lamps front to back every time the train comes in.

Yet the 13th edition said "(ix) Lighting fittings using filament lamps installed in a room having a non-conducting floor, mounted at such a height that they cannot readily be touched and are out of reach of earthed metal." so it seems we have called it filament lamps for years. (1955 the requirement for not needing an earth to lights).

I feel either the two wattages should be the same size, or the equivalent watts should not be shown. So many read on their dimmer switch 20–300 watt, so they look for a bulb which says
1719830431773.png
and over 20 watts and expect it to work.
 
Sponsored Links
I don't think watts has any relevance now or looking for an equivalent. Two different 6w led can be completely different light outputs.
Also it's amusing looking at houses in winter with lights on. Some have rooms with daylight bulbs while other room lights are yellow. That would drive me nuts.
I don't think bulbs are measured for light output or colour very well so its a case of just trying them
As for dimming switches, I think they are less popular now. Jmo
 
The equivalent watts is to help people pick the right LED wattage by comparing it to the old school tungsten lamps.
 
Sponsored Links
There has been a faction who say bulbs grow in the ground for years, however what other name can we use? Lamp, Fitting and luminaire covers the whole item, we have fitted lamps onto spigots, with oil lamps for years, and still do, I watch them changing the lamps front to back every time the train comes in.

Yet the 13th edition said "(ix) Lighting fittings using filament lamps installed in a room having a non-conducting floor, mounted at such a height that they cannot readily be touched and are out of reach of earthed metal." so it seems we have called it filament lamps for years. (1955 the requirement for not needing an earth to lights).

I feel either the two wattages should be the same size, or the equivalent watts should not be shown.
"Equivalent Watts" should NOT be indicated.
Only Lumens and "Colour Temperature" (Kelvin) should be stated - in large Type and easily found !!!
I don't think watts has any relevance now or looking for an equivalent. Two different 6w led can be completely different light outputs.
Also it's amusing looking at houses in winter with lights on. Some have rooms with daylight bulbs while other room lights are yellow. That would drive me nuts.
I now prefer lights to be about 4000K - similar to most fluorescents.
The equivalent watts is to help people pick the right LED wattage by comparing it to the old school tungsten lamps.
LEDs have been available for at least ten years, become more efficient over that time and have "taken over".
After ten year, it is about time that people "related" to the Lumens rather than the Watts used.
(You may find that many "teenagers" would no know what you were talking about if you used that term.
just as many could not use a "Dial" telephone or tell the time on an analog clock.)

If necessary, LED "outlets" could supply/display a chart, indicating a rough set of equivalences to "Incandescent" Lamps.
e.g.
40 W Incandescent lamp produces (about) 500 Lumens
60 W Incandescent lamp produces (about) 800 Lumens
75 W Incandescent lamp produces (about) 900 Lumens
100 W Incandescent lamp produces (about) 1250 Lumens
150 W Incandescent lamp produces (about) 2000 Lumens


In Australia (in general) mention of "Equivalent Watts" now tends not to be used/advertise.
Also, here mostly the term "Globe" is used, although (sometimes) "Light Bulb" but not "Bulb", by itself.
See https://www.bunnings.com.au/products/lighting-electrical/light-bulbs-globes/bayonet-cap-globes

Also, a "Fluorescent Tube" is never called a Bulb here, as seems to occur in North America.
See https://www.bunnings.com.au/search/products?page=1&q=flourescent+tube&sort=BoostOrder
and
 
LEDs have been available for at least ten years, become more efficient over that time and have "taken over".
After ten year, it is about time that people "related" to the Lumens rather than the Watts used.
(You may find that many "teenagers" would no know what you were talking about if you used that term.
just as many could not use a "Dial" telephone or tell the time on an analog clock.)
I agree that today's generation of LED light bulb is a world away from the first generations. And I know that Euro law gradually banned the older, less efficient stuff.
AND I know the modern tech has been around a while now.

However, a 70 year old today has grown up and got used to the old tech, known the old system for 60 years (and of course older people longer still) and to them, this new-fangled LED stuff must still seem very new, IN COMPARISON.

So I understand why manufacturers/ retailers are still printing equivalent wattages on packaging.

Edited due to omission.
 
Last edited:
Nearly all our lights are 6000 to 6500k so a bright white.
Our kitchen lights which are globe bulbs at 4000k as that's all we could get. The difference in colour between 4000k and 6500k isn't much and that noticeable with ours. I think again you have to try them.
 
The equivalent watts is to help people pick the right LED wattage by comparing it to the old school tungsten lamps.
I can see why the equivalent watts are displayed, but not displayed larger than the actual watts.

In read terms, neither watts nor lumen help that much, the problem is LED equivalents are often directional so can never be equivalent, or if not directional have a reduced illuminated surface, so replacing a MR16 with an LED equivalent one has no reflector, and smaller surface area. Or in an outside lamp, 20230518_174342.jpg it is shining up lighting the sky rather than the ground, I did experiment with reflectors, using baking foil, ended up was a smaller piece, but all but one of my outside lamps the base is at the bottom.
However, a 70 year old today has grown up and got used to the old tech, known the old system for 60 years (and of course older people longer still) and to them, this new-fangled LED stuff must still seem very new, IN COMPARISON.
Yes, I still work in inches, but much is to do with schools and what they teach, I returned to collage, and they referred to cm. We all know cm or the centimetre is not an ISO unit, so why still use it in schools and collages, other than in history lessons, as to a kWh I was taught ergs, dynes, and when we went metric Joules, and of course the British thermal unit. The whole idea of using seconds and hours as units of energy which agreed cancel each other out so since 3600 seconds in an hour, so there are 3600 Joules in a Wh how can that be part of the metric system? As to the 4.184 Joules in a calorie, never worked that one out, just loved to start a sentence with calorie at school to show English teacher you did not need to start a sentence with a capital, today with auto connection spell and grammar software it does become rather dangerous.

But to use the same units would help, we in the trade may know watts and VA are nearly the same, but how do they expect the man in the street to know that, if one uses VA on the power supply, then should also use VA on a bulb. Especially since the power factor of the bulb may not be 1.
 
However, a 70 year old today has grown up and got used to the old tech, known the old system for 60 years (and of course older people longer still) and to them, this new-fangled LED stuff must still seem very new, IN COMPARISON.
This well over 70 year old got used to Lumens and Kelvin quite quickly.
After all, they are part of SI which we all use now, don't we ?
So I understand why manufacturers/ retailers are still printing equivalent wattages on packaging.
Not in this country, as I pointed out in Post #5
There is no mention of "Equivalent Watts" on the package which I purchased for "spares" last week.
I can see 806 Lumen, 8 W, Non Dimmable, Cool White and B22 on the front.
On the back - the same, plus 80% Energy Saving, 4000K - and a "Colour Scale" - and lm/W 100

The only reference to Incandescent Lamps is a "Note", in very small print - like this.
*Energy Saving is a guide only based on an Incandescent Lamp with equal Lumens output."
From that one would need to calculate that that would be
5 * 8 W = 40 W - which is not correct, unless perhaps for a Halogen lamp.
Actually, this lamp is 87% more efficient than "a 60W Incandescent Lamp with equal Lumens output."


I was in a Supermarket about one hour ago and in the display of two different Brands only Lumens were stated -
with the actual Watts in small print.
(Should have photographed them!)
 
Not in this country, as I pointed out in Post #5
Which country and where did you point it out?

I read post 5 and could not see the bit to which you were referring.

Not all of the older generations are as clued up as you. SI units they may be, but I didn't learn a great deal about lumens on my 2391 course in the 80s and even though I started secondary in 1977, the teaching majored on imperial, with metric only getting a brief look-in. So, in theory, kids born in the 60s should have been well-versed in these SI units, but for one reason and another (probably stick in the mud teachers who were not up to date with the curriculum), were not.
 
I can see why the equivalent watts are displayed, but not displayed larger than the actual watts.
Perhaps !
In read (sic) terms, neither watts nor lumen help that much, the problem is LED equivalents are often directional so can never be equivalent, or if not directional have a reduced illuminated surface, so replacing a MR16 with an LED equivalent one has no reflector, and smaller surface area. Or in an outside lamp, View attachment 347892 it is shining up lighting the sky rather than the ground, I did experiment with reflectors, using baking foil, ended up was a smaller piece, but all but one of my outside lamps the base is at the bottom.

The type of LED pictured should not be used in an Enclosed Fitting.
The only type of LED suitable for use in an Enclosed Fitting is a Filament LED, with all of its "Control Equipment" encased in the "Base" - which, together with the Socket, acts as a heat sink.

Filament LEDs are just as "omni-directional" as a "normal" incandescent lamp.

See https://www.bunnings.com.au/osram-7...ape-frosted-filament-b22-light-globe_p0127919
Yes, I still work in inches, but much is to do with schools and what they teach, I returned to collage, and they referred to cm. We all know cm or the centimetre is not an ISO unit, so why still use it in schools and collages, other than in history lessons, as to a kWh I was taught ergs, dynes, and when we went metric Joules, and of course the British thermal unit. The whole idea of using seconds and hours as units of energy which agreed cancel each other out so since 3600 seconds in an hour, so there are 3600 Joules in a Wh how can that be part of the metric system? As to the 4.184 Joules in a calorie, never worked that one out, just loved to start a sentence with calorie at school to show English teacher you did not need to start a sentence with a capital, today with auto connection spell and grammar software it does become rather dangerous.

But to use the same units would help, we in the trade may know watts and VA are nearly the same, but how do they expect the man in the street to know that, if one uses VA on the power supply, then should also use VA on a bulb. Especially since the power factor of the bulb may not be 1.
See
 
.... There has been a faction who say bulbs grow in the ground for years, however what other name can we use?
That would, in my opinion, be a very silly 'faction'!

Bulbs had been growing in the ground for millions of years before it became totally accepted (and remained so for decades) to us the world as part of the phrase "light bulb" (often abbreviated to just 'bulb') - so what changed to make this faction suddenly start moaning (and confusing things)??

There are countless examples of words that have two or more totally different meanings, according to context. Even the word Earth" has totally different meanings in terms of horticulture/agriculture, electrical matters and astronomy (and probably more).

I am personally a great believer in NOT mending things which aren't broken ;)
 
So we have 9.80665 newtons in one kilogram, 4.2 joules in a calorie, the newton is 100,000 dynes, ups where did the 1000, 1000,000 go?

The distance is so easy, one minute of movement around the world is a nautical mile, it does not matter if at sea level, or a satellite, the kilometre should have also been the same, but some Frenchman got his maths wrong. So we will not use the dyne we will use the erg instead, ups, that also does not drop into the power of 3, 6, 9 etc.

I don't have to think, I remember 1760 yards are in a mile, however only an imperial mile. We in the UK it seems invented the metric system, but the speed limit is still shown in miles per hour.

So we buy a car made in Japan, and the speedo says MPH, is that UK MPH or US MPH, have you even seen imperial or US marked on a speedo?

Maybe I have made a mistake, if I have then it points out how poor the system is, I pick up my vernier and I never use the scales the digital display shows in ½ thou increments, or 0.01 mm. It can measure up to 6" where my micrometer is limited to ½" but the batteries on my micrometer and slide rule never become discharged.

But back down to reality, I moved into a house with a single 150 watt tungsten pearl light bulb for the whole of my living room. The largest LED I could find in local shops was 15 watt, which was like a tocH candle. So I wanted to change the fitting for one which would give out the same light as a 150 watt bulb. Clearly, some sort of chandelier with multi bulbs was called for, and most of the light will be spread throughout the room by reflecting it off the ceiling, so bulbs need to have a base at the bottom, this also keeps the electronics in the bulb cooler, but as we look at chandeliers the bulb size drops, as they typically use an E14 base rather than a BA22d, so max bulb size which can be obtained in local outlets is 6 watt.

Google tells me a 150 bulb has an output of 2100 lumens, and a 6 watt LED typically 480 lumens, I thought that a little low, so checked a few, and it does seem to be what is quoted, so the chandelier would need just over 4 bulbs, in fact I got a chandelier with 8 bulbs, 20220415_000328_1.jpg and I still need to use standard lamps with uplighters and reading lamps. Either the 150 watt bulb was over 2100 lumens, or the 6 watt are under 480 lumens, or a lumen is no good to work out light output?

With my landing light, I was looking at three things, what it looked light, DSC_6804.jpg how well it lit the area DSC_6798.jpg and the ablity to reduce the light output at night so it would not wake people, the danging bits actually do help spread the light, however even with 5 x 6 watt GU10 bulbs it is not bright enough to stop the emergancy tourch lighting at top of stairs, I can select centre or outer lights, and also centre is colour changing and dimable, so it does what I want, however the emergancy tourch does not light in daylight, but does with the landing light on, so clearly not really bright enough.

On my move from tungsten to LED I did make errors, the LED seems bright, but sit down and try to read a book, and they have failed, last house living room had 2 x 100 watt lamps, swapped to chandliers so 6 x 40 or 60 watt, it would depend what was left in the multi-pack, on going to CFL went to 10 x 5 watt, nowhere near enough light, then 10 x 3 watt LED better but not enough so went to 10 x 5 watt, as one looks at the lumens outputs claimed, it quickly becomes apparent lumen does not work. Started with 2660 lumens, and this went to 4700 lumens, so the room should have been twice a bright, and no way was it.
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top