Location of 4x47kg LPG bottles

[Cha0s]

We are in the process of renovating our house.
Time has come to consider the heating.

Were thinking LPG bottles as a tank needs too much room.
Oil again too much room.

We have the Calor sheet on how close to windows, doors, toxic waste etc..
But does anyone know how close to the boundary these can go? as they cannot go where we wanted them to due to air bricks in the house.

thanks.

 

[muggles]

The cost of bottles will ruin you. A slimline oil tank won't take up much more room than four gas bottles in a line, and will cost considerably less to run. Have you considered an underground installation?

As far as I know, there are no specific requirements to keep cylinders away from a boundary, although they must not be positioned near anything combustible, such as a wooden fence or an easily-ignitible hedge, unless steps are taken to improve the fire rating of the combustible item to at least 30 minutes' resistance

 

[Cha0s]

Hmmmmmm. OK.

So what are the regs for an oil tank regarding boundaries etc . This particular fence has a country road the other side.

Have considered underground but have been unable to find out much in the way of details.
In our case we have a septic tank near where the oil tank may go underground. Is this an issue?
The other thing I have noticed about underground oil installations is the dome. Can this be eliminated?

It seems that choosing gas or oil is tricky because of the fluctuations in price. But we also have a whole load of different regs to contend with too. (To keep us safe and all that)

Cheers.

 

[muggles]

There are indeed fluctuations in price but I don't think LPG has ever been cheaper than oil, especially in bottles, and oil is currently cheaper than mains gas.

Oil tanks must be 760mm away from a non-fire rated boundary, however adding fire protection allows this distance to be reduced to a point where the side of the oil tank can be sensibly inspected

Underground tanks always have a dome, it's where they're filled from, but a dome is much smaller than a tank! It's only about 60cm across. Provided the septic tank can be avoided when digging the hole for the oil tank, there's no reason why they shouldn't be next to each other.

 

[simond]

You can fit an oil tank with internal fire protection almost right next door to the house.

No one with any choice would use LPG bottles; they are horrendously expensive, around 50% more than bulk LPG, which is expensive in itself.

Whether buried or above ground LPG requires large separation distances from buildings and boundaries.

Calor are offering free tank installation at present but I doubt you'll have room for one and if you can't even bear to see a dome, well.... a brace of LPG bottles that run out in no time and the lorry can't get to you in snow would be so much better.

Instead consider a Tuffa oil Tank.

http://www.tuffa.co.uk/blog/2015/12/simons-blog-tuffa-firestop-installation/

PS: The Simon in this case study is me!

 

[Cha0s]

Muggles. . Will look into that then. We could perhaps have a section of fence replaced by concrete or brick providing the fire resistance. Might be a go-er.

Simon. Like the tank. I'll see if they have slimline ones. I also like the boiler. Might save some inside space.

Cheers guys.

 

[muggles]

You can fit an oil tank with internal fire protection almost right next door to the house.

No one with any choice would use LPG bottles; they are horrendously expensive, around 50% more than bulk LPG, which is expensive in itself.

Whether buried or above ground LPG requires large separation distances from buildings and boundaries.

Calor are offering free tank installation at present but I doubt you'll have room for one and if you can't even bear to see a dome, well.... a brace of LPG bottles that run out in no time and the lorry can't get to you in snow would be so much better.

Instead consider a Tuffa oil Tank.

http://www.tuffa.co.uk/blog/2015/12/simons-blog-tuffa-firestop-installation/

PS: The Simon in this case study is me!

Are they approved by OFTEC now @simond? Last I heard they were a no-no and OFTEC required them to be sited in exactly the same manner as non-fire-rated tanks

 

[simond]

OFTEC do not recognise them, as you say, Andrew.

The makers of the tanks have found that OFTEC are unwilling to underwrite them so have got someone else to test them. Unlike gas, the oil industry can use different registration bodies - with OFTEC being just one.

Tuffa have spent a lot of money getting theirs tested with a view to getting building regs sign off, which they have achieved. The future versions of the BS standard will apparently reference fire protected integral tanks, so when that happens OFTEC will have to catch up.

I go into it in more detail in my blog. What I don't mention is there has been some gossip about how OFTEC has been funded and managed in the past, and how this could have possibly influenced their stance regarding this issue. Only gossip, as I say.

 

[muggles]

Interesting stuff...in that case I guess whether they can be signed off rather depends on where you live. Oxfordshire County Council have now withdrawn direct Building Regs sign-off services for this kind of thing, everything must now be done through an approval scheme, so from my point of view I think the only route is OFTEC which means I couldn't fit them unless BR would accept the form included with the tank, which isn't clear. Anyway, this is starting to look like a thread hijack, so I'll leave it there. Maybe a discussion to be continued in the CC...

 

[muggles]

Muggles. . Will look into that then. We could perhaps have a section of fence replaced by concrete or brick providing the fire resistance. Might be a go-er.

Simon. Like the tank. I'll see if they have slimline ones. I also like the boiler. Might save some inside space.

Cheers guys.

The slimline Tuffa should take up less space than a traditional bunded tank and firewall setup, so it could well be an option for you. The only consideration then is cost - a fire-rated Tuffa is almost twice the price of a non-fire rated slimline tank.

There are various options for outdoor boilers, the best ones being made by Worcester, Hounsfield and Grant. Simon is a Worcester man, I much prefer Hounsfield if you're going Heat Only (IE you have a hot water cylinder)

 

[Agile]

While thinking of 47 Kg LPG cylinders!

Does anyone know how much power you can get out of them if installed outdoors and reasonably out in the open when its -1 C ?

Tony

 

[muggles]

It's about 34kW at 15ºC, you lose a bit for the cold weather but not a lot so I'd say about 30kW at -1ºC. If in doubt, fit a pair!

 

[Cha0s]

Don't know if asking for fitters/ trades people is allowed.....

But does anyone know of an installer for underground oil tanks serving Essex?

 

[muggles]

You'll need a digger driver and an OFTEC-registered installer - two people. There's no specific qualification for installing underground tanks, beyond being able to dig a big hole

 

[Cha0s]

Ok thanks.

For above ground tanks.. any regulations about overhanging trees etc?
I would guess that its the same as clearance from combustibles.