Loft Conversion Costs in 2010

[FrogParty]

Been thinking about a loft conversion on our semi built in 1929, so got a couple of quotes from local specialists. They both want more than £40k for the job, which was a shock, my research on the net had led me to expect something nearer 20k. Have prices gone up so much?

The house is 6m x 7.6m (internally to outer walls), none of the internal walls are load bearing so steels needed, the rafters are 95x50 with purlin and ridge is 2.9m above joints. The chimney stacks on the party wall are 5m apart at joist level and both in use. The obvious structural design is to fix steels either side of the stacks across to the opposite wall and run queen posts up from them to the rafters (need doubling up?) forming the short walls. Access to be via a double winder staircase up into a side dormer, which we would like to be room width (that is dormer walls also supported on the steels). We just want a single room conversion (no ensuite etc.), but maybe a rear dormer too. The resulting room floor area is approx 5m x 4m, but the side walls are very low so the usable room quite a bit smaller. Really a very average kind of conversion for a semi.

Can anyone advise me what something like that should cost, either what you have paid recently or what you would charge?

Could I save money by managing the project myself, or am I more likely to pay more as an individual for the services (architect, SE, scaffolding, skip, plasterer etc.) and materials than the loft specialist takes in profit? I am competent at DIY, done brick work, rewired the house (pre part P), plumbed in the bathroom etc., so beginning to wonder if I could do it myself or at least be the grunt labour. Any money saving suggestions?

I just can't see how parts and labour for a single room conversion (admittedly to BR standard and plaster finish level) add up to £40k. Is this a fair price?

 

[DevilDamo]

Considering you have already approached a couple of contractors, wouldn't you assume that is now the going rate?

Just out of interest, do you have a trussed roof as those rafter sizes (95x50) sound like those of a trussed roof? You'll loose a bit of headroom there too as you will need to insulate between and under the rafters. You're talking about loosing approx. 100mm from the existing underside of rafter line.

And do both these quotes state the conversion will be carried out in accordance with the Building Regulations? If so, their quotes should take into account any upgrading of existing internal doors onto the staircase, additional smoke detection/fire resistance, etc...

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Avoid the specialits get some estimates from general builders. Anyone worth their salt may well ask for a set of drawings though.

 

[FrogParty]

Considering you have already approached a couple of contractors, wouldn't you assume that is now the going rate?

Could be the going rate around here and now I guess, or I could have picked the two with more work than they need. But since I could build the entire house for 120k (standard estimates on area), it does not sound a reasonable rate just a speculative/rip-off estimate.

Just out of interest, do you have a trussed roof as those rafter sizes (95x50) sound like those of a trussed roof?

No, it is not trussed but a standard rafter and purlin roof from the era, the rafters are just small I guess.

And do both these quotes state the conversion will be carried out in accordance with the Building Regulations? If so, their quotes should take into account any upgrading of existing internal doors onto the staircase, additional smoke detection/fire resistance, etc...

Yes, as I said all done properly to BR control, although one guy wanted an additional 3k for the fire regs part regardless of how it is done.

Avoid the specialits get some estimates from general builders. Anyone worth their salt may well ask for a set of drawings though.

I wondered about doing that, i.e. paying for plans and SE calcs then putting it out to tender. The other thing that worries me about the quotes so far is that they both say they are provisional, if the architect, SE or buidling control need things different the price will just go up, and buy then I will be commited financially and contractually thus have to pay. I am happy to pay a reasonable fee for materials and labour, I just don't want to be taken for a ride.

Still be nce to have some idea of current construction prices though, before I drop £1200 on plans (fee indicated for that on one quote) only to find I can't afford the project.

 

[geraint]

Considering you have already approached a couple of contractors, wouldn't you assume that is now the going rate?

Just out of interest, do you have a trussed roof as those rafter sizes (95x50) sound like those of a trussed roof? You'll loose a bit of headroom there too as you will need to insulate between and under the rafters. You're talking about loosing approx. 100mm from the existing underside of rafter line.

And do both these quotes state the conversion will be carried out in accordance with the Building Regulations? If so, their quotes should take into account any upgrading of existing internal doors onto the staircase, additional smoke detection/fire resistance, etc...[/quote

you seem to be talking out of your arse... again......

 

[DevilDamo]

For somebody who is unable to use the quote function properly, you are sure making an *rse out of yourself. Nice one.

However, thanks for your valid input to this thread

 

[chappers]

Sound spretty much on the money. last victorian terrace conversion i did was £36K +VAT including a bathroom with client supplying suite and tiles.
Last time I did a conversion for £20K+ VAT was back in about 2003

 

[FrogParty]

Sounds pretty much on the money. Last victorian terrace conversion i did was £36K +VAT including a bathroom with client supplying suite and tiles.

Thanks for that info. Still makes me think my £40K is a bit high though since we are not having a bathroom and one contractor told me that would be another £10k.

I am seeking more quotes, but it is taking a while as the contractors seem rather busy. Perhaps that explains the price, they don't need the work.

 

[joe-90]

Sounds way over the top to me. A mate of mine had one five years ago for 14K. Can't have gone up to 40K. Keep getting quotes. Most people I know are working for less than they did 5 years ago.

 

[DevilDamo]

Do any of the prices take into account possible underpinning or replacement of existing lintels over doors/windows?

 

[mac391]

The steel work alone can add a huge cost to a conversion. If they are too big to go in in one piece they have to be welded on site, a scaffold required and maybe a crane etc etc.
Anyone who has undertaken work to BR will know how much things can change making it impossible to offer a "fixed cost".

Saying that i think the quotes are a bit high even the plans at £1200 sound a bit steep. I've just received plans for both a conversion (including steel) and an extension from a well known quality architect for £500. The conversion i estimate at £30k and sounds very similar to yours.

 

[FrogParty]

Anyone who has undertaken work to BR will know how much things can change making it impossible to offer a "fixed cost".

Being at the mercy of the whims of an individual BCO is an irritant, so much is interpretive and inconsistent. But they should be able to say before any work starts exactly how they want to see the regs applied to my project (even though I'll have to pay them first). But specialist contractors should have lots of experience on what the LABC (or the contractor's chosen independent BC company) want and be able to quote accurately, shouldn't they? Or at least give worst case and best case scenarios.

Saying that i think the quotes are a bit high even the plans at £1200 sound a bit steep. I've just received plans for both a conversion (including steel) and an extension from a well known quality architect for £500. The conversion i estimate at £30k and sounds very similar to yours.

That is helpful to know. I just got my first quote from a local architect with "lots of loft experience", and he wanted £1500 + VAT for basic plans and SE fee, and even more if the plan included a dormer. I seem to have a knack for contacting the expensive people

I am going to keep shopping around, but even doing the plans myself is becoming tempting - I have the technical skills to both survey and draw accurately, and the loft design is pretty much dictated by the house structure. Exactly what value is an architect going to add? I know I need SE advice for the steels, and then chat to a BCO... maybe.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

£1500 including SE is not a bad a price (for an Architect), you need to get real, you may be able to push a drawing round a screen but who knows what you’ll end up drawing, you’re also paying for knowledge. The same reason you’re on here bleating about this and that. If you want it cheaper get some more quotes off a few technicians or draw it yourself and read the Building Regulations yourself. Local Authorities are fairly consistent with their expectations although with regards to conversions you have to acknowledge the existing construction and design accordingly and when people start scrimping things get more complicated. You have been advised as to what will achieve your half hours resistance. Despite what most on here think, Building Control are not an advisory service they offer an approval service. Building Control are under no obligation to advise on specifying suitable materials.

 

[chappers]

A decent architect will be able to design with the optimum structural elements that you may not be aware of, and get the specification correct first time , leaving your builder the simple task of just following the drawings.

I have done conversions off of plans that have varied from excellent to downright useless and even plain wrong.

Now whilst it is possible to spot glaring mistakes on a set of drawings its the small inaccuracies and inadequacies that are only found during the build,that cause all the problems and yes you guessed it these modifications and adjustments and designing on the fly can have knock on and subsequent cost implications.
To be honest your fees don't seem wildly over the top and money spent during the design phase will not only make your build run more smoothly but will the more detailed the plans the more likely you will be getting like for like quotes from your builders.

 

[FrogParty]

Sorry that freddymercurystwin thinks I'm bleating and scrimping. Actually I am more than happy to pay a reasonable fee for people's skills and time, I'm just not in a rush to pay over the odds. I guess with my aero eng. background I could end up drawing a plane by mistake!

Seriously what am I to make of a £1500 + VAT quote when someone else has a plan done for £500? Maybe the latter plans were shoddy and lacked detail, or maybe an experienced expert with a CAD template can do a thorough job in just a day or so and charges accordingly. Or is it that architects generally charge as a percentage of the overall project costs, and locally that market cost is inflated.

I get that a decent architect can add value by optimising elements and producing a correct and detailed spec. Happy to pay for that, and sorry if I offended anyone. However looking at loft plans on the local planning portal most of them are not very detailed at all, some even say "position of beam to be determined by builder on site", or "load bearing wall to be checked". That is what made me think £1500 really, even I could do better than that.

But it is the £40k plus for the whole project that worries me most. My initial expectation (derived from the web) was too low, so it is genuinely useful to hear what others are actually charging/being charged for comparable conversions. I does help to have an accurate guide price to start with.

I am still waiting on some other local quotes. Obviously the depression in the construction market does not include local loft contractors!