Loft conversion cubic allowance vs existing first floor extension roof

[Katekat]

Hello
I am hoping someone can help me, I applied for planning permission for a loft conversion with dormers but was denied for the subjective reason that it wouldn’t be in keeping with the street scene. So we now have to go the permitted dev route, but we’re hitting a wall when it comes to interpretation of the guidelines.
We have an existing single storey side extension with a pitched roof (empty void with velux windows) - does that void eat in to our 50 cubic meter allowance for our loft conversion?
It is so difficult to understand, I have read and reread and have seen conflicting opinion on forums etc, I know our LPA is already against our plans so will of course say it means we can’t do our loft dormers, but is that true?
Our architect is saying the void needs to be deducted from our allowance, our builder is saying it is not part of the roof and is separate so doesn’t need to be…please help!

 

[jeds]

The restriction by B.1(d) refers specifically to the 'original roof'. Your side extension roof is not part of the original roof and is not counted in the roof volume allowance.

PS. I'm assuming your house is two storey?
PPS. just to clarify - if your extension roof joins the main roof, the outcome may be different?

 

[Katekat]

The restriction by B.1(d) refers specifically to the 'original roof'. Your side extension roof is not part of the original roof and is not counted in the roof volume allowance.

PS. I'm assuming your house is two storey?
PPS. just to clarify - if your extension roof joins the main roof, the outcome may be different?

I have seen that some LPA officials claim it should be counted in the volume allowance, but common sense says it shouldn’t, some say yes and some say no, if we went ahead without LPA permissions based on this interpretation will we get in to trouble?
I know people will say check with them, but I already know they will say it counts towards the allowance purely to stop us going our loft conversion as they’ve already rejected our proposals. So our only option is going around them with PD.
Yes we have a two storey detached house, the previous owner extended to the side one storey with a lean to roof with vaulted ceiling. The height of it reaching maybe midway up the second storey so doesn’t touch our actual roof.

 

[jeds]

The act provides interpretation under B.3 as follows:
For the purposes of Class B, “resulting roof space” means the roof space as enlarged, taking into account any enlargement to the original roof space, whether permitted by this Class or not.

To interpret this interpretation; it says that resulting roof space takes account of any enlargement to the original roof. It says nothing about other roofs formed under class A. Appeal cases show that inspectors have included class A extensions where the roof joins the original roof. But this isn't relevant in your case because the extension roof does not join the main roof.

Apply for a certificate of lawful development. Don't draw attention to the side extension, but obviously show it on drawings.

 

[Katekat]

The act provides interpretation under B.3 as follows:
For the purposes of Class B, “resulting roof space” means the roof space as enlarged, taking into account any enlargement to the original roof space, whether permitted by this Class or not.

To interpret this interpretation; it says that resulting roof space takes account of any enlargement to the original roof. It says nothing about other roofs formed under class A. Appeal cases show that inspectors have included class A extensions where the roof joins the original roof. But this isn't relevant in your case because the extension roof does not join the main roof.

Apply for a certificate of lawful development. Don't draw attention to the side extension, but obviously show it on drawings.

Do I need to apply for a cert of lawful development from the same planning office that want to stop me doing the loft conversion?
So if I go ahead based on our common sense interpretation, and the planning office disagree once the work is done, what will they do? Demand I take down our dormers?
Thank you for your help so far, I feel I can’t speak to anyone about it as it is such a specific niche question.

 

[jeds]

Yes you will need to deal with the same planning office. Can you not apply for a CoL before you start?

The key thing with a CoL is that it is not subject to public comment and is not dependant on what the LPA think of your proposal. It is based purely on law. If your proposal is lawful, the LPA must issue a CoL. If they refuse they must give you reasons and those reasons must be directly related to matters of law. They can't say it would be out of character or overbearing or any of the other stuff they usually cut and paste onto planning decisions.

 

[Katekat]

Yes you will need to deal with the same planning office. Can you not apply for a CoL before you start?

The key thing with a CoL is that it is not subject to public comment and is not dependant on what the LPA think of your proposal. It is based purely on law. If your proposal is lawful, the LPA must issue a CoL. If they refuse they must give you reasons and those reasons must be directly related to matters of law. They can't say it would be out of character or overbearing or any of the other stuff they usually cut and paste onto planning decisions.

Okay, but can they refuse by saying you’ve already used up your allowance with your side extension roof? That’s what I’m worried about.
I just feel so uneasy about it as it seems everyone says something different, I really want to believe the lean to roof will not eat up our allowance, just feels like there is no concrete proof and the LPA will disagree and I will get in trouble.

 

[jeds]

The CoL is your concrete proof. If they refuse it, address that issue then, but they must have legal reasons, of which I can see none that would be justified. Since the PD Act was laid down there have been thousands of disputes over interpretation. The process is; somebody applies for something > LPA refuses > the somebody appeals > an inspector decides. Once a matter is decided by an inspector we have a bit more clarity. Of the thousands of appeal decisions in the database, I can find none that cover your particular query. That tells me that either none have gone to appeal or none have been refused. I'd bet on the latter.

Googling and fretting won't make it go away, because nobody can tell you definitively. Apply for the CoL and you will at least know for sure. If it's refused you can appeal and make law.