Loft Conversion Lighting Nightmare!! HELP!!!

[merango]

Hi Guys,

Sorry if this might have been covered before, I’ve had a look to see but couldn’t find the help I needed. I’m new to the forum and have been doing fine with my DIY until it came to the wiring….

My Gran used to live in a loft conversion on the 2nd floor, she had a fully contained kitchen, middle landing light and 2 lights, one in each room. Imagine it split into 3 room in a row. Kitchen Light, landing light and bedroom light.

She moved into a fully managed care home and so I decided to gut the loft and redecorate with a new on-suite, bedroom and separate study. All the building work was completed and the existing wiring was left in place, only replacing the light switches and power socket casings to modernise it.

Only one problem remains from the work…No lights! Reason being is the 5amp fuse wire keeps blowing every time I switch on the middle landing light above the stairs leading down to the first floor of the house.

The ground floor of the house has a double 2 way light switch. One switch controls the hall way light, the second controls the 1st floor landing light. On the 1st floor landing is another double 2 way switch, the left one works in conjunction with the Hall way switch to turn on and off the Landing light, the second switch operates the same scenario with the 2nd floor landing light. Does that make sense?

The 2nd floor light switch is a triple 2 way switch. The middle switch is for the landing light above the stairs, the left and right ones “should” turn on / off the Study lights and the bedroom lights respectively.

Now the confusing part.

Cables….I have a single white shielded cable leaving the 1st floor switch upto the loft:

Yellow in common
Blue in L1
Red in L2
Earth

This goes up to the Second floor where is enters the triple 2 Way switch from the bottom of the box.
Into the top of the light switch box are 2 more cable bundles. A Grey shielded cable containing an Earth, a Red and a Black (I assume this is for the lights on the left and right?)
There is also another white shielded bundle containing the 4 cables Yellow, Red, Black and Earth.

My Question is how to check if the Switch is correctly wired to allow the following.

Left switch turns on / off study light
Center switch turns on / off 2nd floor landing light (In conjunction with 1st Floor switch)
Right switch turns on / off bedroom light

There is a common, L1 and L2 on the back of each of the 3 switches for wires…there was a cable bridge across 2 connectors but I cant remember which ones. 2 of the Red cables (1 from the feed going upto the 2nd floor and and 1 from the Grey shielded bundle coming into the top of the switch) are wound together. Also the Black (from the Grey cable) and the Blue (from the top feed) are also wound together.

Any help on this would be much appreciated as I’m sure someone out there will know what I’m talking about.! I Hope!!!!

 

[IanDB]

The logic of it seems straightforward, you have a hall light controlled by one switch, two way switching between ground and first floor to control the 1st floor landing light, two way switching between 1st and 2nd floor to control the 2nd floor landing light and separate switching for the study and bedroom.

However, the problem is the wiring - it sounds like a bit of a bodge. If you look at the "for reference" post at the top of the Electrics Forum you'll see how lighting should be wired.

In theory you should have three core cable (yellow, blue, red) running between the ground floor switch and the first floor switch (controlling the 1st floor landing) and the same again between the 1st and 2nd floor (controlling the 2nd floor landing). You should then have separate red and black for each of the two switches going to the study and the bedroom. Obviously you haven't - hence the problem.

IF the grey sheathed red and black are actually the switched lives going to the study and bedroom lights then they would require a live feed on the other side of their respective switches and this is where the jumper would have come in plus a live feed. However this is pure conjecture. If you don't know how check this out I would get someone in to assist. I don't like the sound of wires being "wound together" - that's not very good to say the least.

However, it may also help you if you can identify what colour wires are at each ceiling rose as you may be able to work it out with this additional information. Try drawing it out with reference to the aforementioned diagrams.

 

[merango]

Hi,

Thanks for the help and the info...it makes a lot more sense when you put it like that, just a bit concerend that the one Grey cable is the only one feeding the 2 lights on either side of the room.

Will have to take a look at the light wires and try and draw it out from there.

Thanks again

 

[mapj1]

You may find the wires from the switch to the fittings are live only and that neutral comes to the bulbs from elsewhere (possibly not even the same lighting circuit). If you can take digital photos, some people here enjoy the challenge of guessing what the wires do.

 

[merango]

I've got a few pics which might make things a lot clearer, just do have any hosting space to link to them...anywhere that does it free?

 

[alarm_guy]

Try www.photobucket.com

 

[merango]

Thanks for the link....

Ok, here are 3 pics of the offending switch socket and mess of cables and 1 of the switch. You should be able to see the White shielded cable coming up and the 2 shielded cables coming in from the top, one grey and one the same white as from the first floor. There are 2 Red's wound together one from the downstairs linked to the Red of the Grey shielded cable.

Basically, how do I wire up the switch so I get the 3 separate lights working as described in the post...

Thanks to anyone that can crack it

[/img]

 

[Lectrician]

My guess (and it is a guess).

Cable coming up Yellow to common, red to L1, blue to L2 (on one of the switches on the 3gang plate.)

Then the black and blue of the cables coming down into a connector block on their own.

The red from the grey cable into the com of the next switch, and linking to the third swithes com aswell.

The yellow to L1 of the second switch, the blue to L1 of the third switch.

This is an educated guess, perhaps you could tell us what cables are in the two lights in the bedroom and study before you try this combination!

 

[merango]

Sorry about this guys...I'm not being much help... From what I can see after taking all the lights down to see what was under the fixtures was thus...

The light on the left side has 2 Grey Shielded cables in the roof socket.. earth, red and black...

The middle landing light has 2 bunches of grey cables with Red, Black and Earth...

The right side light has only one grey shielded, red black and earth..

Where is the white cable going too?!?!

Looks like I'm going to have to get in an electrician...oh well, was hoping this was gonna be possible but it looks like a nightmare unfolding!

 

[Lectrician]

Sounds a little awkward to sort over the screen

An electrician is required I think

Sorry we cant help

 

[merango]

Really appreciate the help...Thanks for trying will let you know what happens