Loop wiring giving a problem

[old wrinkly]

I am trying to replace the light fitting in my hall.

The existing ceiling rose had the standard blue/brown leads to the bulb and there are 2 black wires twisted together. On the existing ceiling rose connector the brown/blue went to Live/Neutral respectively and the twisted pair went in the loop connectors.

The new ceiling rose only has standard live/neutral/earth connections.

I have put the twisted pair into a block and connected the two remaining feed cables to the live/neutral connectors but the lights aren't working nor is one of the adjacent rooms (assume it is on the same loop), everything seems OK.

I have tried switching the two incoming wires around but this hasn't made any difference.

I can't see what I have done that is different to the original wiring.

Any help is much appreciated.

 

[pcaouolte]

Did you take a photo of the old wiring before you changed anything? If so please please post it here.

Do you have any test equipment and know how to use it?

 

[SUNRAY]

A picture of what you have now will also be helpful

 

[old wrinkly]

Two images of original but not very clear I'm afraid.

I have the standard neon type screwdriver to test mains and I also have a Peakmeter non contact electric voltage tester https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07SVXK2XV?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1 #### only recently obtained

 

[old wrinkly]

Current image. The twisted pair (loop) are just visible at the top of the image (covered with black tape) where the cross bracket is fitted to the ceiling.

I should have mentioned the light is controlled by two switches in the hall

 

[SUNRAY]

It looks like your wires are singles or single & earth so I think unlikely the loop is used.

Can you recheck your old rose, I think it's most likely to be this with 3 neutrals:

 

[old wrinkly]

Hi, yes you are correct 3xNeutral,3xLoop, 2XLive

 

[RandomGrinch]

Have you got any earth wires hiding up in the ceiling void?
I'm afraid your new fitting requires an earth connection.

 

[old wrinkly]

Not that I am aware of and I am unable to climb into the loft. I am aware that most/all modern metal light fittings require an earth to avoid accidents if touched.

My grandson is an electrician and would probably come over to correct that when he has time. He has the same thing to do in our lounge. However, at the moment I just want to get the light working as he is, as stated, very busy. The chances of the fitting being touched once working is very low.

All I really need is to know the correct wiring to get the light working if that's possible within the forum. I have 2 other similar lights to fir but will leave these until I can get my grandson over.

I have even thought about refitting the old lamp to see if it works.

 

[terryplumb]

All 3 black wires that are visible in the left side of your pic appear to all be connected to the neutral terminal block. Is that so ?
If it is they all need to connect together in the new fittings terminal block.
The single black wire on the right in your pic would be the switched live ,make sure you do not mix that up with the other blacks, it must not come in contact with them.

 

[SUNRAY]

Hi, yes you are correct 3xNeutral,3xLoop, 2XLive

So you realise you have have 3 black neutral wires, no loop wires and one black live wire

EDIT: too slow again

 

[old wrinkly]

Right, looking at the enlarged original there are 2 blacks going to loop, one black to brown and one black to blue. So I assume the black to brown is the switched live.
The two blacks to loop were twisted together and they are still combined but in a small block (I broke out the brass terminal block from the rose) as I don't have small block.

This is why I am confused as the 2 remaining blacks are still connected to brown/blue as per the original or rather to the twin wire from the bulb and should therefore work as before. There are no other wires involved.

I don't want to take up too much time here on what should be a simple replacement.

Is there a way for me to test which wires are live or not??

 

[terryplumb]

Either of your test instruments should identify the switched live ,which would be live when the switch is in the ON position.
The other 3 blacks are all neutrals ,and has already been said above ,need to be connected together in the neutral terminal.

 

[SUNRAY]

Right, looking at the enlarged original there are 2 blacks going to loop,

I don't believe so, what I see from your picture is 4 neutral wires and 2 lives with nothing in the loop shown by X's:

Hi, yes you are correct 3xNeutral,3xLoop, 2XLive

one black to brown and one black to blue. So I assume the black to brown is the switched live.

I believe so

The two blacks to loop were twisted together and they are still combined but in a small block (I broke out the brass terminal block from the rose) as I don't have small block.

No, they were in neutral according to your picture.

 

[old wrinkly]

Good morning.

In an attempt to try and resolve my issue, I have gone back to basics. The attached image shows the wiring as it is in a "raw" state. The two twisted wires show negative on my test screwdriver. The other two wires show a slight neon on the screwdriver when the power is on irrespective of which of the two switches in the hall I use. I have one near the front door and one further down the hall near the lounge.

There are no other wires in the ceiling.

I am, as can be seen from the image, using the original bulb fitting as this does not require an earth as it is plastic.

Unless I am missing something then as the two wires that connect to the brown/blue on the bulb holder are showing power then the light should work, but it doesn't.

I have done nothing else other than work on the 4 wires from the ceiling.