Lost feed to kitchen tv from VM Tivo box

[paul243]

Hi,
I have been feeding a tv in the kitchen via an old VCR to use it's RF modulator.
All has been fine until recently when the signal from the VM Tivo box has gone. "no signal"
All terrestrial channels are perfect.
I also retuned the kitchen tv yesterday unaware that no Tivo signal was going to the tv so the new channel list does not now include the Tivo channel, I think it was numbered in the 900's.
The Tivo is sending out a signal, I checked this by connecting the main tv via Scart.
So- do I assume that whilst the VCR is sending terrestrial it is somehow now unable to send the signal from the Tivo. Could it fail in that way?
To clarify,all works well except the one channel selected on Tivo to the kitchen.
Hope this makes sense,
Any thoughts please?
Thanks.

 

[Lucid]

Yes, it makes sense. Although I wouldn't rule out a fault, I tyhink it would be sensible to check and eliminate some simpler causes first before pressing the nuclear button. I'd put this one then in the category "Many a slip 'twixt cup and lip" because there's a list of reasons why things might stop working.

In no particular order, we have...

The TV isn't switched to analogue TV
You've had to do a Freeview retune and the VCR wasn't on so the TV(s) didn't pick up the signal
You've had to do a Freeview retune and opted to skip the analogue tuning
You've had to do a Freeview retune and now the analogue channel clashes the new position of a digital channel*
The VM box has had an update, and the SCART socket has reverted to RGB which isn't a signal that the VCR understands
The AV input on the VCR has changed no it's no longer receiving the VM signal
The SCART lead was/is loose going in to the VCR

The above isn't an exhaustive list, but it gives you a starter-for-ten.


* Although they use different signal methods, both analogue and digital still use the same transmission space, so if the signals get too close to each other then you can get interference. I wouldn't expect analogue to disappear completely, but it is still something to consider.


If this or any other reply was helpful to you, then please do the decent thing and click the T-H-A-N-K-S button. It appears when you hover the mouse pointer near the Quote Multi-quote buttons. This is the proper way to show your thanks for the time and help someone gave you.

 

[paul243]

Many thanks for that.
The tv has always received both signals .
The VCR was definitely on
I've reset the tv and done all scans, results show zero analogue channels
The signal was lost before I did the Freeview retune.
If the VM has had an update, would trying a dedicated RF Modulator be helpful? How to tell if it had an update?
I've tried all AV 's on the VCR
I've changed and checked all leads and connections.
I've just remembered that when I lost the VM signal in the past sometimes if I switched the VCR on and off quickly the signal would re-appear.
Is it possible that the VCR is only capable of handling terrestrial channels?
Thanks again

 

[Lucid]

You're welcome.

The only benefit in using a dedicated RF modulator is if the one in the VCR is broken. Also, depending on the TV, doing a "Freeview" retune might not get the analogue tuner to rescan. Some TV-makes do both analogue (for the VCR) and digital (for Freeview) tuning from scratch. Others may only update the digital side of things, so it's worth just double-checking that what's really happening during the retune process.

Re: VM firmware updates, there are a couple of clues. The obvious one is looking up what the latest firmware version is for your particular model of box. You'd do that online, and then cross-check with what your current box is running. This info will be in the box menus somewhere. I know that the V6 boxes has a F/W update back in July. The V6 box though doesn't have a SCART output, so I know you haven't got one of those.

Another clue to a firmware update having happened is if some of your settings have reverted to factory default or changed from the preferences that you set. For example, the video standard of the SCART output. Check this in the menus. If you find that it's now set to RGB then you've got the likely cause of the problem. A VCR won't understand RGB from SCART. It needs a basic video signal: composite / PAL / video or whatever VM are calling it.


"Is it possible that the VCR is only capable of handling terrestrial channels?"

A VCR will pass the full spectrum of radio frequencies that we use for digital TV and for its own analogue-modulated output. It can't tune-in-to or generate digital (DVB-T) channel frequencies, but it can certainly pass them and add its own analogue output. In short then, if this worked before then there's every reason to think it should still work.


If I was there on-site, I'd start with getting the VCR connected to the TV via SCART first so that I could see any onscreen menus from it. Then I'd enable the VCR's test pattern which is the best signal source for tuning a TV. It provides the most stable signal and doesn't require any incoming aerial signal to stabilise it. There's usually a way to change the output channel frequency too so that it can be moved if it clashes with an existing transmission frequency.

At this stage you might want to hook up the aerial output of the VCR to the closest TV. That way you can play around with tuning without walking to and fro to another room.

Put the TV on to its analogue tuner, and then go through the analogue manual tuning process. Once up and running, you can then change the aerial output wiring so that the same signal goes to any other TVs in the house.


If this or any other reply was helpful to you, then please do the decent thing and click the T-H-A-N-K-S button. It appears when you hover the mouse pointer near the Quote Multi-quote buttons. This is the proper way to show your thanks for the time and help someone gave you.

 

[paul243]

Manual search screen on kitchen TV reads
Search type -analogue
Band C (S also option)
TV system BG ( Options also I,DK,L,LP)
Channel 1
Frequency 047.25 (other options)
Message reads "not valid tune entry,please change your preferences to valid ones"
There are no values in the signal strength bars.
Is this any help?

 

[paul243]

Hi again Lucid
Update Sorry ,Tivo was in standby !
Details as above but no message now and still no values in signal strength or quality bars .

 

[Lucid]

Manual search screen on kitchen TV reads
Search type -analogue
Band C (S also option)
TV system BG ( Options also I,DK,L,LP)
Channel 1
Frequency 047.25 (other options)
Message reads "not valid tune entry,please change your preferences to valid ones"
There are no values in the signal strength bars.
Is this any help?

It looks like you're searching analogue, but it should be PAL I for the UK (presuming all your gear is UK spec). This is to do with the sound carrier. PAL B/G will give you a picture but no sound if the transmission from the VCR is PAL I.

Band C is 46-890 MHz, which is what I'd associate with digital cable TV (hence 'C' for Cable). There used to be analogue cable TV transmissions, but I think it's mostly digital now, so I wonder if the TV is expecting to pick up cable transmissions rather than analogue terrestrial? (Disclaimer: Analogue cable is something I know very little about other than Milton Keynes had analogue cable piped to all the houses.)

Band S is for Satellite reception. Some TVs have a built-in satellite tuner. There'll be a separate input for the signal cable for satellite, so if the TV is getting Freeview then I know you're not connected to the wrong input.

What is the make and model of the TV you are trying to tune?

 

[paul243]

It looks like you're searching analogue, but it should be PAL I for the UK (presuming all your gear is UK spec). This is to do with the sound carrier. PAL B/G will give you a picture but no sound if the transmission from the VCR is PAL I.

Band C is 46-890 MHz, which is what I'd associate with digital cable TV (hence 'C' for Cable). There used to be analogue cable TV transmissions, but I think it's mostly digital now, so I wonder if the TV is expecting to pick up cable transmissions rather than analogue terrestrial? (Disclaimer: Analogue cable is something I know very little about other than Milton Keynes had analogue cable piped to all the houses.)

Band S is for Satellite reception. Some TVs have a built-in satellite tuner. There'll be a separate input for the signal cable for satellite, so if the TV is getting Freeview then I know you're not connected to the wrong input.

What is the make and model of the TV you are trying to tune?

Panasonic TX-24C300B UK and IRL model

 

[paul243]

You're welcome.

The only benefit in using a dedicated RF modulator is if the one in the VCR is broken. Also, depending on the TV, doing a "Freeview" retune might not get the analogue tuner to rescan. Some TV-makes do both analogue (for the VCR) and digital (for Freeview) tuning from scratch. Others may only update the digital side of things, so it's worth just double-checking that what's really happening during the retune process.

Re: VM firmware updates, there are a couple of clues. The obvious one is looking up what the latest firmware version is for your particular model of box. You'd do that online, and then cross-check with what your current box is running. This info will be in the box menus somewhere. I know that the V6 boxes has a F/W update back in July. The V6 box though doesn't have a SCART output, so I know you haven't got one of those.

Another clue to a firmware update having happened is if some of your settings have reverted to factory default or changed from the preferences that you set. For example, the video standard of the SCART output. Check this in the menus. If you find that it's now set to RGB then you've got the likely cause of the problem. A VCR won't understand RGB from SCART. It needs a basic video signal: composite / PAL / video or whatever VM are calling it.


"Is it possible that the VCR is only capable of handling terrestrial channels?"

A VCR will pass the full spectrum of radio frequencies that we use for digital TV and for its own analogue-modulated output. It can't tune-in-to or generate digital (DVB-T) channel frequencies, but it can certainly pass them and add its own analogue output. In short then, if this worked before then there's every reason to think it should still work.


If I was there on-site, I'd start with getting the VCR connected to the TV via SCART first so that I could see any onscreen menus from it. Then I'd enable the VCR's test pattern which is the best signal source for tuning a TV. It provides the most stable signal and doesn't require any incoming aerial signal to stabilise it. There's usually a way to change the output channel frequency too so that it can be moved if it clashes with an existing transmission frequency.

At this stage you might want to hook up the aerial output of the VCR to the closest TV. That way you can play around with tuning without walking to and fro to another room.

Put the TV on to its analogue tuner, and then go through the analogue manual tuning process. Once up and running, you can then change the aerial output wiring so that the same signal goes to any other TVs in the house.


If this or any other reply was helpful to you, then please do the decent thing and click the T-H-A-N-K-S button. It appears when you hover the mouse pointer near the Quote Multi-quote buttons. This is the proper way to show your thanks for the time and help someone gave you.

 

[paul243]

BTW There is no mention of RGB or PAL in any of the Tivo box menus

 

[paul243]

It's back!
It seems the VCR has 3 channels AV1 AV2 and PROG 1
I selected all in turn and did a full TV first installation on all three. AV2 did the trick.
However it was AV2 which I used originally so I still don't know why the signal was lost.
Many thanks for your time,knowledge and patience!
Paul

 

[Lucid]

It's back!
It seems the VCR has 3 channels AV1 AV2 and PROG 1
I selected all in turn and did a full TV first installation on all three. AV2 did the trick.
However it was AV2 which I used originally so I still don't know why the signal was lost.
Many thanks for your time,knowledge and patience!
Paul

Yep, that was one of my suggestions in my first reply...

In no particular order, we have...

The TV isn't switched to analogue TV
You've had to do a Freeview retune and the VCR wasn't on so the TV(s) didn't pick up the signal
You've had to do a Freeview retune and opted to skip the analogue tuning
You've had to do a Freeview retune and now the analogue channel clashes the new position of a digital channel*
The VM box has had an update, and the SCART socket has reverted to RGB which isn't a signal that the VCR understands
The AV input on the VCR has changed no it's no longer receiving the VM signal
The SCART lead was/is loose going in to the VCR

Glad it's sorted

 

[paul243]

It's gone again! Channel is there (9001) but no signal.Tried all 3 channels on VCR but no joy.
Any further thoughts?
Thanks

 

[Lucid]

Get someone to come in and have a proper look at it.

You're in Cheshire. So am I. .... just saying.

 

[paul243]

Hi again Lucid,
Lost it again, I've tried analogue channel scan and first time install several times but it's not finding the VM analogue channel.
I've also bypassed the splitter and fed the output from the VCR direct to the feed to kitchen, still no joy. Is it possible that the external coax is capable of sending the freeview signal but not the VM analogue?
It's been fine recently,but just now disappeared.
Any further thoughts?