Low voltage shower pump - part P ?

[kipper99]

I am considering fitting a low voltage shower pump under the bath in my bathroom (the one I'm looking at is 24V).

My question is, would this be Part P nofitiable?

The mains connection would be made outside of the bathroom with only the low voltage cable from the transformer passing through the wall into the bathroom.

Thanks for any advice you can offer,
Bob.

 

[ericmark]

You can read Part P at http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/professionals/en/4000000001253.html my reading says if in a special location even a telephone connection is notifiable.
What I am not sure on. Is under the bath a special location? Part P defines a location as walls but does not refer to floor or ceiling. With 17th Edition if the bath side is fixed and need a tool or key to remove, then anything under the bath does not come within bathroom regulations.
I would think it would be up to the courts to decide and I would think it unlikely that any council would initiate any court case to get a decision.
But I would not think anyone would want to take the chance other way either and say you can fit it so sorry you must read yourself.
Eric

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Is under the bath a special location? Part P defines a location as walls but does not refer to floor or ceiling. With 17th Edition if the bath side is fixed and need a tool or key to remove, then anything under the bath does not come within bathroom regulations.
I would think it would be up to the courts to decide

No it wouldn't - Part P says

“special location” means a location within the limits of the relevant zones specified for a bath,
a shower, a swimming or paddling pool or a hot air sauna in the Wiring Regulations, sixteenth
edition, published by the Institution of Electrical Engineers and the British Standards
Institution as BS 7671: 2001 and incorporating amendments 1 and 2.

So if you need a tool to get access to under the bath, it's not a bathroom zone and therefore it's not a special location within the meaning of the Building Regulations.

If you don't then it is and it is, and it's notifiable.

I am considering fitting a low voltage shower pump under the bath in my bathroom (the one I'm looking at is 24V).

That's not Low Voltage. The IEC definitions of voltage bands are:

• Extra Low Voltage: AC below 50V and DC below 120V
• Low Voltage: 50 - 1000V AC or 120 - 1500V DC
• Medium voltage: 1kV - 35kV
• High voltage: 35kV - 230kV
• Extra-high voltage: >230kV

This is not some pedantic technical point - if you start getting involved in doing your own electrical work, and start learning about regulations etc you'll come across references to "Low voltage", and it'll be no good you thinking that that means 12V...

 

[ericmark]

Thank you for that ban-all-sheds I had I feeling that was the case but could not find it.
As for voltages as single phase 600 volt a.c. or more to point 600 volts a.c. to earth is limit of low voltage the 1000 volt is phase to phase. The 50 volt limit for extra low voltage is both between phases and to earth so in some cases it could be only 25 volt. There is also Reduced Low Voltage which is no more than 110 volt between phases and 63.5 volts phase to earth.
I agree with you it is so easy to give wrong information when someone gets the names wrong.
Telephone is not ripple free and the polarity is changed with the ringing so the voltage is right on the limit at 50 volt. But most other items are well below the limits.
In dry conditions 25 Volt a.c. is limit SELV without basic protection and 12 V a.c. for other cases also 12 V a.c. (30 volt DC) is limit for Zone 1 in bathrooms.
I would expect the pump is DC since designed for a bathroom.
All rather academic really and even the manufactures still call their silly little GU 5.3 lamps Low Voltage rather than extra low voltage and we still have the age old problem with the word “Bulb” which in the auto electrical trade is the thing that give light and the Lamp is the whole assembly from History of course where the luminaries were of a bulbous shape and the Lamps were removable and fitted on a spigot as still used on bicycle “Lamps” the building electricians however because some luminaries were tubular rather than bulbous called the “Lamp” a “Fitting” and a “Bulb” a “Lamp” which where the two don’t mix is not a problem but working abroad the same stores and in some cases the same people did both auto and building maintenance and this “Lamp” v “Bulb” issue really caused problems when ordering spares especially when a “Head Lamp” is supplied without a “Bulb”. And since the manufactures call them “Bulb” I will continue to refer to “Bulb” or “Tube” rather than “Lamp” it may mean some electricians may try to say I am not a proper electrician but I have a degree that proves otherwise and better that than ending up on a job with wrong bits! We watch American films and instantaneously translate between bonnet and hood although when Scotty on Startrek who is suppose to be from Scotland can’t pronounce Aluminium that does grate.
Eric

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Thank you for that ban-all-sheds I had I feeling that was the case but could not find it.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BC_Consolidated_Bldg_Regs.pdf

 

[ericmark]

Thank you for that, I wonder about changes between 16th and 17th Edition as under 17th Edition there is no Zone 3 and 701.512.3 has been added and 601-05-01, and 601-08-02 removed. I was surprised that Part P referred to BS 7671:2001 I would have expected just BS 7671 and I do wonder how Part P can refer to an obsolete document that is no longer in print. Seems to me they have been lazy and instead of doing everything themselves the government have tried to do it on the cheap and referred to a document that was only ever intended as a recommendation and never intended to be hard and fast rules. We all know it is not perfect and this has really been forced home with RCD recommendations which although may be all well and good for 230 volts in the home I don’t think was ever intended to cover supplies to bell pushes. And historically we have used Brown, Blue and Green/Yellow cores for 110 volt yet BS 7671 has for many years told us to use Brown, Black and Green/Yellow we all know there is no real problem and we all ignore the regulations to some extent which is all well and good when it is us doing it but becomes a little different to tell others to do the same. Especially on this forum where it seems people all to ready to jump on anyone else breaking the rules. And when Kipper99 asks what seems to be a straight forward question I end up instead of just saying “No” we end up with reams of explanation. What is this country coming to? Gone are the days of £25 to get drive tarmaced we now have to pay council extra £120 to say we can do it yet “taxes” have gone down under this government or have they?
Eric