Lowering airing cupboard floor

[muaskar]

Hi,

We're converting our airing cupboard space into an enclosed shower. We currently have headroom inside it (floor board to ceiling) of 1900mm. We want to bring this up to 2000 or even 2100 if possible. We cannot move the ceiling upwards since joist in the loft run right above it. So we decided to lower the floor and sacrifice a bit of headroom. I have a few questions if the forum can be so kind to guide us

1. The lowered floor will break the 2m headroom rule for stairs below it. Maybe it will be 1.8m from pitch line (2m from the actual top of the tread). We think this would be still usable but would it get in the way or a house resale?
2. We are considering either (A) lowering the existing batten structure by 100-200mm, which we don't know if it will take the weight of a heavy person showering! ... or (B) removing it completely and using stick timber (220x45mm) as both the structure and the floor itself, using Sagulator online it seems it would take the weight and sag would be acceptable with nothing under it but it seems unusual! Any words of wisdom/warning for/against A or B?

I added a couple of pics to help visualise things. Any and all help appreciated -- thanks so much!

M

 

[noseall]

Hi,

We're converting our airing cupboard space into an enclosed shower. We currently have headroom inside it (floor board to ceiling) of 1900mm. We want to bring this up to 2000 or even 2100 if possible. We cannot move the ceiling upwards since joist in the loft run right above it. So we decided to lower the floor and sacrifice a bit of headroom. I have a few questions if the forum can be so kind to guide us

1. The lowered floor will break the 2m headroom rule for stairs below it. Maybe it will be 1.8m from pitch line (2m from the actual top of the tread). We think this would be still usable but would it get in the way or a house resale?
2. We are considering either (A) lowering the existing batten structure by 100-200mm, which we don't know if it will take the weight of a heavy person showering! ... or (B) removing it completely and using stick timber (220x45mm) as both the structure and the floor itself, using Sagulator online it seems it would take the weight and sag would be acceptable with nothing under it but it seems unusual! Any words of wisdom/warning for/against A or B?

I added a couple of pics to help visualise things. Any and all help appreciated -- thanks so much!

M

2m vertically from the edge of the tread is the regulation when installing a new staircase. I doubt a small deviation from this would be noticed.

 

[muaskar]

2m vertically from the edge of the tread is the regulation when installing a new staircase. I doubt a small deviation from this would be noticed.

Thanks very much! We did a simulation of the new level and felt it’s ok but good to know about the standard being from tread edge!

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I hope you've actually tried attaching a bit of wood where the new ceiling will be and walking up and down naturally - not just carefully standing there. If you're under 6 foot tall then ask someone taller to try it.

I don't understand why you're bothering with seemingly designing it to sag?!

Do it properly, use floor joists and boards, using joist hangers and/or attaching securely to the surrounding structure. The existing frame wasn't designed for standing on. Flexing in a shower will mean a cracked tray and/or leaking edges.

You should put a bevelled edge on, to eke out a little more headroom and/or to make any impacts less painful.

 

[noseall]

I hope you've actually tried attaching a bit of wood where the new ceiling will be and walking up and down naturally - not just carefully standing there. If you're under 6 foot tall then ask someone taller to try it.

I don't understand why you're bothering with seemingly designing it to sag?!

Do it properly, use floor joists and boards, using joist hangers and/or attaching securely to the surrounding structure. The existing frame wasn't designed for standing on. Flexing in a shower will mean a cracked tray and/or leaking edges.

You should put a bevelled edge on, to eke out a little more headroom and/or to make any impacts less painful.

Are you aware it's only about a 900mm span? I'm not sure the span tables have a timber section designed for such a short space, lol. Relax, some 3"or 4" x 2" will eat it.

 

[muaskar]

Thanks everyone!!

I did decide eventually to do a proper job with 2x4 (well 45x95 mm) C24 timber. I also raised it above the floor boards level with 2 pieces of CLS timber to give a little more headroom (nailed with 150mm nails). I’m 6ft and there’s enough clearance even going up/down energetically

The span is about 1000mm so I may have gone a little overboard with the number of pieces!! (see pic), but it feels quite sturdy though so I’m satisfied

Thanks to everyone for your replies. They all helped guide us in this unusual project of ours

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Looks great, you need a shower tray to be super-rigid. Definitely good to over-do it, keep those edges and waste pipes sealed.

 

[muaskar]

Many thanks, Ivor! Yes I'm quite happy with how it turned out ... will be sealing the edges and waste pipes
Thanks a lot to you and everyone on the forum!

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

What I mean is that they definitely won't remain sealed if the thing is moving like a bouncy castle. I know someone who built a bathroom on a floating floor, the movement pulled the waste pipe open under the floor, no visible signs until the floor gradually turned to mush.

 

[noseall]

pulled the waste pipe open under the floor, no visible signs until the floor gradually turned to mush.

We always use solvent weld as does our plumber. Same thing can happen with push-fit pipes (coming apart) when using a plunger to unblock a pipe.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

My shower room's on a floating floor. I put solid timber in place of the insulation slab under the bog and basin, and solid concrete under the shower tray. Also ensured the pipes aren't resting against the floorboards, the floor can bounce all it likes but the plumbing's not going anywhere. It compromises the insulation but that's a sensible compromise to my mind. If condensation gathers on the cold shower tray then that's the best possible place for it anyway - it's a free dehumidifier.

I don't see any good reason to use push-fit waste pipes, anywhere ever. Solvent weld ideally, compression if not.

 

[noseall]

My shower room's on a floating floor. I put solid timber in place of the insulation slab under the bog and basin, and solid concrete under the shower tray. Also ensured the pipes aren't resting against the floorboards, the floor can bounce all it likes but the plumbing's not going anywhere. It compromises the insulation but that's a sensible compromise to my mind. If condensation gathers on the cold shower tray then that's the best possible place for it anyway - it's a free dehumidifier.

I don't see any good reason to use push-fit waste pipes, anywhere ever. Solvent weld ideally, compression if not.

We use comp' fittings when we are doing temporary works, I.e. daily removal then put back for the evening.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Compression are sometimes the only option, e.g. for a shower waste or somewhere where you need to be able to wrestle it to the required angle while screwing something to the wall.

But push-fit are just awful. Perhaps if there's a weird scenario, e.g. if you need to build a socket into something then later slide a pipe through a hole into it. Generally avoid unless the only option, but some just seem to use nothing else, presumably as they're cheap and easy to fit.