Ma' Beloved Boiler...

[advisewelcome]

Introducing Bella the Boiler...

She is an aging Vailant Turbomax VUW 282 E

Been with her for the last 25 years (bless her). Occasional let down here and there, occasional leak but seems to be still chugging along.

Prop'ing her up with a British Gas insurance which costs £28 odd a month. They are telling me the gas value is now obsolete and other parts are going obsolete over time which means they can't fix her if a critical part goes obsolete.

When BG engineers do work they say that there is sludge water inside the boiler, but the overall water in the system seems cleaner and the magaclean is not picking up too much sludge (the magaclean is unfortunately on the flow rather then return).

Just wondering if there are some options to keep her going a bit longer without her 'conking out on a winters day and becoming unfixable?

Queries...

1 Is there a an inlet or outlet I could connect a hose to and flush the boiler only with mains pressure? Beneficial? Or would this have to be done professionally (not cheap and would they screw something up)?

2. Are there chemical desludging options for the boiler that would work and I assume require inhibitors after?

3. Is it game over for Bella, a new 30KW condensing boiler would be a better investment? Vaillant or Worcestershire Bosch seem to be the options and would either of them offer warranty and engineer support in a day or two of anything went wrong as some older vulnerable people in the house.

Welcome thoughts.

 

[terryplumb]

After 25 years service ,it's probably wise to plan to replace it.

 

[advisewelcome]

After 25 years service ,it's probably wise to plan to replace it.

Its £3k upwards I reckon for a 30KW boiler to serve a 4bed-2shower house . Unfortunately cost of living isn't making this palatable.

Just wondering if sticking a hose on some boiler connection, would enable me to DIY flush out the boiler? The sludge inside of the boiler seems to perish the seals on parts. If I can flush that out - may tick along longer?

 

[Madrab]

They are telling me the gas value is now obsolete

Still available at my parts supplier. Of course it is old and as new/old stock is used up then they will go discontinued

Not sure how they know the boiler is sludged up, not as if there's a wee window you can look in and see and if the system water is clear .... of course over time they will always fur up and a flush wouldn't do it any harm, if done properly. A non aggressive system cleaner added and allowed to do it's bit for a week or 2 then a good flush should see it right.

As suggested, it's is at the top of that hill but not or the slippery yet by the sounds of it but always good to budget for a replacement. Boiler choice is a hard one and you will get a handful of suggestions. Vaillant are good, cust support isn't bad either depending on where in the country you are, more on the expensive side of things. WB aren't as good as they used to be IMO, some say Cust service is second to none, other say theirs has been crap.

One thing I would suggest is though, get a well experienced and recommened independent at your back and they should support you through thick and thin.

 

[advisewelcome]

Still available at my parts supplier. Of course it is old and as new/old stock is used up then they will go discontinued

Not sure how they know the boiler is sludged up, not as if there's a wee window you can look in and see and if the system water is clear .... of course over time they will always fur up and a flush wouldn't do it any harm, if done properly. A non aggressive system cleaner added and allowed to do it's bit for a week or 2 then a good flush should see it right.

As suggested, it's is at the top of that hill but not or the slippery yet by the sounds of it but always good to budget for a replacement. Boiler choice is a hard one and you will get a handful of suggestions. Vaillant are good, cust support isn't bad either depending on where in the country you are, more on the expensive side of things. WB aren't as good as they used to be IMO, some say Cust service is second to none, other say theirs has been crap.

One thing I would suggest is though, get a well experienced and recommened independent at your back and they should support you through thick and thin.

Ta for reply. When the British Gas engineers replace parts they see the water internally (recent divertor valve leak).

If you want to name-drop your supplier or somewhere I can get parts from - welcome too.

Sounds as though there isn't any service connections on the boiler a DIY'er can plug hose pipes onto to flush the boiler only? - I think mains pressure is 1 bar and it would take more than that to do a worthwhile boiler flush? Thus the only way for non-professionals is - chemicals cleaners, drain out then inhibitor put in - via the magaclean filter?

 

[Madrab]

When the British Gas engineers replace parts they see the water internally

You say the system water is relatively clean so that's good. I would always expect to see some build up in a 25year old boilers internals but that isn't sludged up, the water inside the boiler will be exactly the same as the system water, as it is exactly the same thing, sounds like they may be setting you up for a new boiler punt at some point. Sludged up is something completely different and can put paid to a boiler in no time.

A good quality cleaner dosed into the system and left running around it for a few week will sort out a lot of that build up, then it's just a case of a gravity empty, fill, run, empty, fill, run and do that a few time to flush out the cleaner until it all runs clean. Then inhibit it well.

Powerflushing is really only a thing that allows professionals to clean out really sludged up system and rads in a couple of days, not needed for yours if everything is relatively clean and the rads don't have cold spots etc. Oh and other companies to scares people with and then charge them a fortune for something that wasn't really needed.

As far as parts are concerned then this may help - https://www.heatingspareparts.com/b...bomax-spc-vuw-spc-242-fs-1e-spc-1998-min-2001, of course on something so old not everything will ever be available

conking out on a winters day and becoming unfixable

As far as that is concerned, I guess that can happen with a boiler half it's age but if parts are still available then it's always usually fixable

 

[gas112]

when the gas valve magneto goes on these it also takes the board out so quite an expensive repair if not covered

 

[advisewelcome]

Thanks for replies.

I can do the chemical clean and been thinking about a new one:

My thoughts about a new one...

Type: Was told a 30kW standard Gas combi is what to go for (a 1940s air-leaky 4 bed semi-detached house isn't going to work with Heat pumps and I heard Hydrogen or alternatives are not feasible at the mo?).

Warranty: Am hoping that manufacturer warranty will mean someone would come around within a 1-2 days if it went down for any reason within the 1-5 years warranty period (WB or Valiant the same with sending engineers)?

Installation: There are like-for-like boiler bashers like BOXT that could be an option for install? - but if there's sludge in the old radiators, am worried about it making its way into the exchanges of a shiny new boiler - would I need to budget for a 12-radiator power flush or replacing rads? (OMG British Gas charge a fortune for power flushing a system).

Budget: Money wise there is probs a calculation to do considering what can be saved in bills per month with a new 90% efficient condensing boiler? And also instead of spending £28pm on old boiler insurance, putting that on financing a new one (as long as the manufacturer warranty is nearly as good as British Gas Emergency boiler insurance)? Also the house EPC might look a bit better? - but not sure if that translate into anything £materially.

... anything missing in this thinking?

 

[Madrab]

Type: Was told a 30kW standard Gas combi is what to go for

You currently have a 34Kw (for HW) @ 11.5L/Min @35deg rise, so a more modern 30Kw combi should have comparable HW output

Warranty: Am hoping that manufacturer warranty will mean someone would come around within a 1-2 days if it went down for any reason within the 1-5 years warranty period (WB or Valiant the same with sending engineers)?

Again, all really comes down to location and what the manufacturer has in available resource, warranty calls are usually within a day or 2.

Installation: There are like-for-like boiler bashers like BOXT that could be an option for install? - but if there's sludge in the old radiators, am worried about it making its way into the exchanges of a shiny new boiler - would I need to budget for a 12-radiator power flush or replacing rads? (OMG British Gas charge a fortune for power flushing a system).

You can use whoever you like but rarely will you get the same service from a volume installer as against a local independent. You would probably get better support from an experienced and recommended local independent

Budget: Money wise there is probs a calculation to do considering what can be saved in bills per month with a new 90% efficient condensing boiler? And also instead of spending £28pm on old boiler insurance, putting that on financing a new one (as long as the manufacturer warranty is nearly as good as British Gas Emergency boiler insurance)? Also the house EPC might look a bit better? - but not sure if that translate into anything £materially.

Swapping an old boiler for a new one doesn't really come down to money saving as far as boiler efficiency savings are concerned. It's all really about new boiler, new bits, new warranty, piece of mind etc. Yes of course it can lead to lower gas bills but balancing that against the outlay of the new boiler those costs would take a loooong time to recoup.

 

[advisewelcome]

Swapping an old boiler for a new one doesn't really come down to money saving as far as boiler efficiency savings are concerned. It's all really about new boiler, new bits, new warranty, piece of mind etc. Yes of course it can lead to lower gas bills but balancing that against the outlay of the new boiler those costs would take a loooong time to recoup.

Ta. The British Gas guy said something like a £40 saving per month in winter with a new boiler.... did he have his sales hat on.

Is there a valid argument to say that instead of spending £28 on boiler insurance for old boiler, best to put that money into financing new one. That way the money is going into a new asset rather than an obsolete one? Generally buying the product outright is cheaper - and fitting with local independent may be the long-term cheaper option. Does the local independent (and it seems tough to find them nowadays) have to be registered with the manufacturer as an "authorised fitter" in order for manufacturer warranties to be applicable?

How much £labour cost would be reasonable for a like-for-like boiler installation (with the addition of changing the Maga-clean to the return rather than the flow)?

 

[Madrab]

The British Gas guy said something like a £40 saving per month in winter with a new boiler

Your boiler runs @ ~79% efficient a new boiler on a good day, running @ optimum, would be ~ 10% more efficient, the maths is easy - you'd save £40/month if you current gas bill was £400 odd but there are a large number of variables so really hard to put a number on it TBH.

Is there a valid argument to say that instead of spending £28 on boiler insurance for old boiler, best to put that money into financing new one.

Always - peace of mind & warranty cover to name just 2 primary reasons

Does the local independent (and it seems tough to find them nowadays) have to be registered with the manufacturer as an "authorised fitter" in order for manufacturer warranties to be applicable?

No - all manufacturers will have a standard warranty that the boiler ships with, there are longer warranties with certain manufacturers if you use their accredited installers but there also longer warranties for some boilers if you fit their mag filters so shop around

How much £labour cost would be reasonable for a like-for-like boiler installation (with the addition of changing the Maga-clean to the return rather than the flow)?

That's a - how long is a piece of string - question prices vary wildly with location/installer/work involved/ etc so hard to price on an online forum like this I'm afraid.