Mains Sockets In Bathroom

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Hi, I am just curious about this and wondered what an electrician would make of it.
So last week I was working in Belgium and the hotel I was staying in had a double mains socket very close to the sinks in the bathroom. I was just wondering why this is deemed safe in continental europe but a similar installation would not be allowed here in the UK.

As I say, this is just idol curiosity and not something I'm planning to do.
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Well - firstly it would be allowed in a UK bathroom if over 2.5 metres from the edge of bath or shower - basins do not count.

However, it is true that in Europe sockets are placed nearer baths and showers than in the UK .
Perhaps there are isolating transformers (I don't actually know the rules or if there is any minimum distance).

Presumably the people are not being electrocuted or shocked in huge (or small) numbers so they do not consider further restriction necessary.
 
I was just wondering why this is deemed safe in continental europe but a similar installation would not be allowed here in the UK.
The honest truth is that rules and norms are a result of messy compromises between different interests and have developed seperately in different countries. There have been attempts to harmonise electrical standards across Europe, but there has been more focus on equipment than on installations and some stuff has stuck firmly on the "too difficult" pile.

That said, the rules on sockets in bathrooms in the UK has been slowly changing, it's gone from "not allowed at all" to "3m from the bath" to "2.5m from the bath". For us plebs our bathrooms are too small for that to make a difference, but presumablly rich gits can now have sockets in their bathrooms.
 
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I was just wondering why this is deemed safe in continental europe but a similar installation would not be allowed here in the UK.
Most of Europe and some other places use a common set of standards for electrical installations, which is IEC60364.

However when those are fashioned into what ends up as BS7671 in the UK, special extra items are added including the piece where socket outlets in bathrooms must be 2.5m away from a bath or shower.
Previously 3m
Previous to that no socket outlets in any bathroom.

The exact reasons are unclear, however they will be based more in hearsay and conjecture rather than actual scientific evidence.
Another example of items in BS7671 which should have been removed long ago.
 
Well - firstly it would be allowed in a UK bathroom if over 2.5 metres from the edge of bath or shower - basins do not count.
I didn't realise that basins don't count. So could you, in theory, have a 13A double socket that close to a sink in the UK?
Might they have been shaver sockets?
No, they weren't shaver sockets because you could plug a hairdryer into them
 
I think it’s only Uk and the like that believe in isolation transformers. (And planes and trains)

I’m assuming most appliances have cables less than 2.5m. (Except hoovers), and therefore can't be dropped into a bath while plugged in
 
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I didn't realise that basins don't count. So could you, in theory, have a 13A double socket that close to a sink in the UK?
Yes, as you've been told, it would theoretically be allowed in UK, PRIOVIDED it was as least 2.5m from the nearest bath or shower.
 
The exact reasons are unclear, however they will be based more in hearsay and conjecture rather than actual scientific evidence.
I've certainly never seen an explanation formally stated.

However, I think that most people probably imagine that the (well-meaning) intent was to reduce the lowlihood of people using mains-powered equipment (e.g. hair dryers) whilst in a bath or shower?
 
As I say, this is just idol curiosity and not something I'm planning to do.

They are actually very useful for plugging shavers into (which now come with the smaller euro pins), and with a bit of enlarging of the holes, you can plug toothbrush chargers in too. (which require a 16 hour charge). You don't need to leave a light on or have that annoying transformer buzz and heat output that you get from a shaver outlet. ( alot aren't designed for 16 hour use)

You can buy them in the UK off ebay.

Obviously the circuit should have RCD protection.
 
All continental European countries that I‘m aware of allow sockets outside of the usual zones 0-2 surrounding baths and showers. 30 mA RCD protection is mandatory.
Shaver sockets with isolation transformers pretty much disappeared when the regs were changed, in Germany and Austria back in the 70s.
 
I think it’s only Uk and the like that believe in isolation transformers. (And planes and trains)
The whole world believes in planes and trains, and there's ample evidence of their existence.
 
They are actually very useful for plugging shavers into (which now come with the smaller euro pins), and with a bit of enlarging of the holes, you can plug toothbrush chargers in too. (which require a 16 hour charge). You don't need to leave a light on or have that annoying transformer buzz and heat output that you get from a shaver outlet. ( alot aren't designed for 16 hour use)

My toothbrush charger has a 13A plug on it and I use it in the bedroom.
 
The exact reasons are unclear, however they will be based more in hearsay and conjecture rather than actual scientific evidence.
Another example of items in BS7671 which should have been removed long ago.
Yes and no really on that comment (I agree with the rest of your post though).

I reckon that 1/ it is a good idea to keep bog standard plugs and sockets out of the splash area such as baths, sinks and basins - although there is no actual reg measure for kitchens because it would make life impossible for some in the UK. I reckon with the 3m then 2.5 m it was and attempt to remove the complete ban of sockets in bathrooms (or rooms containing a fixed bath or shower) in order to avoid encouraging hairdryers etc being used near the bath.shower . Of course some folk will still do daft things no matter what obstacles you put in the way. The UK bathroom shaver socket does go some way to reduce risks but some folks still do daft things regardless.
I`m sure that some of you, like me, will have seen a bog standard 13A socket in a bathroom with shaver adaptor plugs in in order to use shavers and toothbrushes etc because it is cheaper and can be unplugged to use the hairdryer which is often directly over the basin too.
You can`t win.
If you say none allowed, some folk will ignore it, if you say 3m or 2.5m some will ignore it or reduce it, deliberately or carelessly - remember covid and the UK 2, rule? commonly known as 6 foot, well nearer 6ft 7in really but folks said 6ft then "misjudged" it to make it 5ft or 4ft or 3ft etc. You just cant win whatever you try.

Still with the covid 2m example, two things I saw stand out 1/ a shop where queuing was marked out by squares and included a 90 degrees change of direction, squares marked out on floor "2m apart" - that was to sq centres not square boundaries but the best thing was at the 90 degree change there was one square then a 1 m turn then 1m then next square so the resultant hypotenuse was not 2m but merely 1.414m anyway! 2/ Some benches, each with a large notice attached "2M and two opposing arrows" suggesting sitting one person at each end of the bench but the problem was that even if two people brought their own chair with them and placed them external to each end of the bench then it would still not achieve 2m separation (one saving grace that unless they turned to speak to each other their breathes were not directed at each other).

If people perceive an inbuilt safety factor in such rules and dimensions then they tend to reduce/adjust it themselves in practice.
Example, how high you are allowed to build a fence, marked lines for parked cars, current ratings of cables etc etc
So I think that the 2.5m or 3,0m rules were basically a good idea but folks still abusive them all of the time, like slavishly sticking to a rule as written rather than intended meaning - probably one reason why rules and regulations (including BS7671) are difficult to write.
 
I sometimes wonder if each future edition of BS 7671 is going to reduce the minimum distance by 0.5 m until it’s eventually harmonised to „outside zones“.
 

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