Maintenance free junction boxes under pipe runs

[John2016]

Hi,

I'm migrating two small living room light from a standard ceiling rose to downlights.

Each living room has three sets, each with two LED lights. Each set of downlights will terminate in one Wago JB. Placing the Wago JB for each set is it allow for additional downlights to be installed in the future.

The downlights will be controlled by a three gang switch, of which will have its Wago JB, where the live feed will be connected, only.

I would like to make the JB accessible where possible, however in order to achieve this I would need to place the Wago JBs under the bedroom's radiator pipe runs.

Does this have any negative implication on safety regulations?

The other option I have it to move the cables and have them run along side electric cables which operate the power sockets. Is there any impactions of running lights and power sockets along side? This is in the next section (between joists) and would be inaccessible. This is considered to be a option as Wago boxes can be configured to be MF
http://www.wago.ltd.uk/pdfs/WAGOBOX large leaflet.pdf


Thanks

John

 

[sparkwright]

You can run lighting and socket cables together - assuming both are 230 v.

You can run cables and junction boxes under pipes if you really need to, just don't let them touch.

You don't want to drill holes in joists below notches for pipes though.

 

[John2016]

Cheers.

Not sure if I should start another thread, however I have added my wiring diagram and would appreciate if you/anybody could see any potential problems or concerns.

I have decided to use Wago JB using the specific connectors which are maintenance free. The 3 gang switch will have the live feed which will be looped between each gang (inner switch).

Ta.

 

[Iggifer]

That's fine, other than you will struggle to get that many cables in the first wago box. Not saying it's impossible, but there's a finite amount of room in a wagobox and that's a lot of cores to try and dress.

I count 15. I think the most I have ever used a wagobox for is 9 (3x3) I would recommend you think about using an adaptable box for the first box, and then wagoboxes for the joins on the LEDs.

Also, your switch may be wired wrong, but common is generally used for Permanent live and L1 for switched live.

 

[John2016]

I never really thought of that, the Wago comes in one size. Would there be anything you would recommend? Not really a fan of traditional JB as there are not maintenance free as I'm planning on laying floorboards.

I'll switch the wires around

 

[EFLImpudence]

Why don't you do the 'normal' thing and make the junction boxes accessible through the downlight holes?

THESE are made for the job.

 

[John2016]

Will this be able to handle the amount of cables?

 

[sparkwright]

I imagine it would be difficult to get ALL the junction boxes to be accessible through the downlighter holes.

Nothing wrong with having an inaccessible junction box with maintenance free connections - assuming you install it correctly.

There's lots of larger enclosures you could use, but try to get one with cable grips to clamp the cables in place.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Will this be able to handle the amount of cables?

Well, no not all in one box, but neither can your central wago, but if you arrange the circuit in a more conventional manner you will be able to design it better.

While there is nothing wrong with MF boxes, I don't think intentionally installing them all so that they are never seen again is wise if it is avoidable.

 

[John2016]

I imagine it would be difficult to get ALL the junction boxes to be accessible through the downlighter holes.

Nothing wrong with having an inaccessible junction box with maintenance free connections - assuming you install it correctly.

There's lots of larger enclosures you could use, but try to get one with cable grips to clamp the cables in place.

I'll be following the manufacture guidelines in order to meet the BS 5733-MF standard, is there anything else I would need to do?

Could you recommend any large enclosures which you have used that would conform to the BS 5733-MF standard?

Many thanks.

 

[EFLImpudence]

 

[John2016]

Will this be able to handle the amount of cables?

Well, no not all in one box, but neither can your central wago, but if you arrange the circuit in a more conventional manner you will be able to design it better.

While there is nothing wrong with MF boxes, I don't think intentionally installing them all so that they are never seen again is wise if it is avoidable.

They will all be accessible, however, will need to lift up the newly laid carpet. I was thinking if I go with MF then it will less likely I or someone else would need to inspect them or they go wrong compared to non-MF JBs.

Ta

 

[John2016]

View attachment 100858

Your design works well. I should have mentioned, I have a limitation on the number of cables the trunking can handle. Four is the maximum with some slight movement. I've had to break away a freshly skimmed wall to remove the old trunking to install a thinner replacement. I have to pre-feed the cables in the trunking before it gets plastered over. Once installed, you won't be able to add any more cables through the trunking. The cable management itself needs to take four cables, two for each of the small living rooms, each with the circuit above.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Not sure I follow all of that but -

now is the time to do it properly.

Do you mean conduit? Trunking isn't buried.
Cables can be buried directly in the wall.

 

[John2016]

Sorry yes I mean a conduit.

I have a conduit which runs from the living ceiling to face height inside a pillar (switch location). The pillar is shared between our though lounge and therefore the conduit needs to carry cables for both switches. This itself can only handle four 1mm cables, these will be a snug fit. My plan is to pre-feed the conduit with the four cables before its installed into the wall and plastered over.

I came home yesterday, only to find the cables already run and the wall plastered. Seems like I have only one option. I'm going to use your design for the bedrooms, much appreciated.

Do you see a problem from a electrician perspective on the design I put together? From the diagram the central Wago box would need 6x (twin + earth 1mm) cable. I cut up 6 pieces of cable and seems to fit OK in the Wago with some room for expansion.

Ta.