Microbore radiator moves.

[majorj0nny]

Hello all...

Im decorating the front room (living room) and because the house was fitted with central heating some time after it was built, whoever installed it ended up running the 2 front room radiator sets of pipes down the internal walls.... they are covered with some nasty looking plastic boxing - but while Im now decorating this room I was wondering if I should re-run these pipes down the insides of the cavity Plasterboard walls that are directly next too them - so that I have a neater room at the end.

the neating using microbore piping but Im unsure as too the correct procedure or best way to go about doing this....

I can get access to the original piping upstairs in the spare room so access to that is ok to cut the pipes... and Im sure I can hack a route through the cavity walls for the pipes to get where they are going .... but should I ...

a) stick with all copper 10mm microbore piping - solder jointed

b) use the microbore 10mm plastic push fit pipe and accessories

c) use copper piping with compression joints?

I really am a novice with most things plumbing - but Im willing to give it a go and have done a little soldering here and there in the house...

are these push-fit connections reliable ? Ive used them on the water supply for the kitchen sink but never on the heating system... and whatever solution I use - how best do I avoid creeking knocking pipes? whats the rules of thumb ?

In the mean time - I had a go at removing one of these radiators. Its not really 100% necessary, especially if I am ripping out that bit of piping anyway, but there are other radiators I will have to replace in the future (eg - bathroom one getting a little rusty at the bottom, kids bedroom I think is sludged up at the bottom?) so I thought Id ask...

heres a pic to demonstratre.

Ok - I fully and tightly closed off the main 'knob'... then unscrewed the cap (D) and fully tightened the little screw inside ... hoping this would totally isolate the radiator from the system... I attached a hose to the drain tap on the other end of the radiator and opened it - draining the radiator...

I was worried the radiator would still be drawing water through from the system (as it seemed to be holding a mass amount of water?) so I kept checking the heating header (little one) tank in the loft - It never mooved so I 'hope' the radiator was isolated...

I opened to breed vavle also to help it along and after a while water stopped coming out of the hose...

So .... then I tried to undo the big Nut (B)... thats where I hit the problem... I dare not force it ... but all I can get it point (A) rotating slightly (as if it would unscrew from there ... and point (C) stays still with (B) .... because the radiator is fixed all I get is the entire pipework and control knob sticky outy part (technical hey?) trying to turn on the radiator ... obviously Im not going to get much done like this...

Does B supposed to move indipendent of C ? - it looks like B is screwed on Cs body .. but wont move ... are these 2 parts fixed ? I hope not as It will probably mean I cant remove the radiator without detaching the 2 pipes from underneither ? and for that I will have to drain the system...

thanks in advance.
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[weareleeds]

If as you say you are a novice leave well alone there is an 8mm pipe going into the rad from the twin entry valve so you will probably be better repiping 1 pipe to other side of rad with 2 new single entry valves

 

[majorj0nny]

... but how do I unfasten the existing valvue in the first place?

I now definately need these pipes and radiators out of the way ... if I used some of them push fit end caps, could I drain the system, cut the pipes in the ceiling for these rads, block them with end caps and re-fill the system while I sort out the new piping and other stuff ?

i suppose I will need either to connect the 2 pipes? or provide some means of releasing any trapped air that builds up where normally Ive have a radiator bleed valvue on refilling the system ?

 

[Expertboy]

... but how do I unfasten the existing valvue in the first place?

I now definately need these pipes and radiators out of the way ... if I used some of them push fit end caps, could I drain the system, cut the pipes in the ceiling for these rads, block them with end caps and re-fill the system while I sort out the new piping and other stuff ?

i suppose I will need either to connect the 2 pipes? or provide some means of releasing any trapped air that builds up where normally Ive have a radiator bleed valvue on refilling the system ?

Get a pro in seriously, the injector valve is not standard. I went out to one last week, the customer had done that much poking about it cost half as much again to put it right than what it should of done.

 

[ChrisR]

If your sticky-out bit (A) is undoing you're turning it the wrong way.

Put a gert big pair of grips over D/C to hold the body STILL. Then use a spanner on the nut B and LIFT it - ie it undoes towards the radiator.

If it won't play, heat the nut up a bit (gently with a blowlamp).

Not sure if you can still get valves like those - most folk use a valve at each end these days.

As you previous advice, microbore can give you a headache esp when old. Lengths matter, etc, so maybe best to get someone in.
Dead easy to solder tho if its dry and clean.

 

[majorj0nny]

If your sticky-out bit (A) is undoing you're turning it the wrong way.

Put a gert big pair of grips over D/C to hold the body STILL. Then use a spanner on the nut B and LIFT it - ie it undoes towards the radiator.

If it won't play, heat the nut up a bit (gently with a blowlamp).

Not sure if you can still get valves like those - most folk use a valve at each end these days.

As you previous advice, microbore can give you a headache esp when old. Lengths matter, etc, so maybe best to get someone in.
Dead easy to solder tho if its dry and clean.

thanks for that...

If I wanted to remove the piping altogether temproarily while I sort out the decorating and replacement piping, could I just chop the pipes in the ceiling feeding these radiators and use push fit end-stops to block them?

Im thinkking of doing this quite so I dont have to drain down the system ... obviously having towels ready to mop up the inevitable flow until I get the ends on.

 

[ChrisR]

Sure you could. You could use a diy freezer can to stop the gush, microbore freezes quickly. You'd even get the 2 freezes (ie when you have to remove the caps..) out of one can for both pipes if you guessed it right.

 

[majorj0nny]

Sure you could. You could use a diy freezer can to stop the gush, microbore freezes quickly. You'd even get the 2 freezes (ie when you have to remove the caps..) out of one can for both pipes if you guessed it right.

wow - you can do that ???? thats brilliant !

I think with this project its all a matter of timing ... I dont want the heating off as long as it would take me to do a proper job with the replacement piping, but Id need the radiators and piping out long enough to do a sensible (none rushed) job with the skirting/coving/walls...

the best option I could think of was too just chop the pipes and fit end-stops... but i was worrying about the obvious expell of water...

hmmm... might take a trip to the DIY shop.

thanks,.

 

[majorj0nny]

Sure you could. You could use a diy freezer can to stop the gush, microbore freezes quickly. You'd even get the 2 freezes (ie when you have to remove the caps..) out of one can for both pipes if you guessed it right.

MANY THANKS ChrisR ....

A trip to B&Q today, I got said freezing cans and 'sheath' and successfully froze the pipes enough for me to neatly cut and fix end stops... seems to be holding (fingers crossed!)

I easily tore out the old piping and radiators and can now take my time with the new consealed piping and perhaps even more suitably sized radiators..

 

[doitall]

Not to be critical of your success by why the hell didn't you fit a pair of isolating valves instead of the caps.

 

[majorj0nny]

Not to be critical of your success by why the hell didn't you fit a pair of isolating valves instead of the caps.

... ermm... cause I dont know what isolating valves are ?

the end caps are only temporary until I sort out the frontroom rads and piping..

 

[doitall]

Isolating valve are cheap quarter turn valve that would have shut the water off to save you draining/freezing the pipe a second time

 

[majorj0nny]

Isolating valve are cheap quarter turn valve that would have shut the water off to save you draining/freezing the pipe a second time

oH i know what you are on about ... and yes I probably would have been better using them... well - I will know for next time...

Infact I may drain the system anyway once the new rads/piping is in position - saves me from re-freezing and gives me chance to introduce a cleaning additive/corrosion inhibitor.

what kind of condition would you expect the water to be in, in a 70's CH microbore system ? I have a sticker in my airing cupboard that says "Sentinel x1000 inhibitor" and dated 1993 ... Im guessing that the last time anyone recorded the system being drained...

anyway - the little amount of water I got out of the system was quite .. well.. black! ... on closer examination it contained what I can only describe as very fine black sand... is this corrosion? the remains of the inhibitor chemicals? ...

what cleansing products would you people reacomend to give the system a thourough clean through... then (I assume after a time I will need to drain again), what product should I use to protect?

Ive seen all manner of substances available with different properties - but which are the best?

 

[doitall]

I would be reluctant to use anything too strong on a system that age.

Try fresh water first and see what happens