More CCTV Questions

[Pete the Feet]

Before you jump down my throat, I've had a good look for my specific questions on this forum and other places and have found many useful answers. However there are a few more questions which I could do with resolving before I drop a clanger on purchase and installation.
The system will be a 4 - 5 camera POE installed on a semi detached bungalow. The cameras on the front and rear will be approximately 2.4m above ground level.
I intend to use 5mp or 8mp Hikvision Darkfighter 2.8mm lense outdoor cameras, possibly anti-vandal domed. However I would much prefer to remove the existing security light adjacent to the front door and replace it with one of those integrated light/cameras. So far I have not found anything compatible with a POE system therefore I may just remove the light and install a camera in its place as it will most likely be affected by light pollution or whatever the term is.
The other key install criteria is location of the NVR recorder. If fitted underneath the TV in the living room would the constant whirring of the disc drive be annoying or would an SSD be a better option?
If the NVR was mounted in another location would I still be able to view the cameras via the TV which is connected to the house network for Netflix.
Can the NVR be controlled/setup with the laptop as opposed to the remote if mounted remotely?
Are 8mp cameras okay to access via the Android phone app or is it too much data? I'm hoping the App does some sort of encoding to make it viewable.
Is it possible to set up movement detection alarms to notify on the phone app at different times of the day for different cameras? e.g. Front of house no alarm until after 22:00 but the remaining all day.
Also if a covert camera can be used at the front door, is zoning of motion detection available or is this tied in with the specific cameras as supplied by Hikvision or a software setting?
I will get pre made cables cat 5 or 6 if there is any preference and wonder if weatherproofing is required for termination in the back of the dome cameras?


I hope I've made myself clear on the above and your replies would be appreciated before I splash out on some kit.

Many thanks

Pete

 

[secureiam]

common assumption is that you get full resolution on your phone.

apps are designed to live view a sub stream which is much lower resolution than the recorded stream.

On some apps and on a computer you can select the mains stream rather than the sub stream.

 

[Sally2000]

The light from a camera, either IR or visible will attract spider webs that reflect the light back and spoil the picture. Better to have a white LED light to illuminate the scene but mounted away from the camera. With the better cameras you can get good colour pictures at night with a only a modest degree of visible light.

Mounting the recorder next to the TV is a risk because a burglar will take it with its recordings. You can move it elsewhere but you need an HDMI connection. Some network TVs can run some unofficial camera apps, but the ones I have seen are not really usable. Official apps like those for Hikvision will only run on standard Android or Windows devices. Alternatively you can get a small Android or Windows box to run the official app, mounted behind the TV - works for me.

The movement detection area of the camera can be adjusted as necessary.

 

[Pete the Feet]

common assumption is that you get full resolution on your phone.

apps are designed to live view a sub stream which is much lower resolution than the recorded stream.

On some apps and on a computer you can select the mains stream rather than the sub stream.

Cheers for that info as I was wary of opting for the 8mp cameras.

 

[Pete the Feet]

The light from a camera, either IR or visible will attract spider webs that reflect the light back and spoil the picture. Better to have a white LED light to illuminate the scene but mounted away from the camera. With the better cameras you can get good colour pictures at night with a only a modest degree of visible light.

Mounting the recorder next to the TV is a risk because a burglar will take it with its recordings. You can move it elsewhere but you need an HDMI connection. Some network TVs can run some unofficial camera apps, but the ones I have seen are not really usable. Official apps like those for Hikvision will only run on standard Android or Windows devices. Alternatively you can get a small Android or Windows box to run the official app, mounted behind the TV - works for me.

The movement detection area of the camera can be adjusted as necessary.

That's handy to know as I have an Amazon Fire box which is basically an Android box which I have loaded additional apps to. Much cheaper than a long HDMI cable and much better to hide the NVR away as you said.

 

[Gibbies]

Hikvision ColourVu cameras seem to be very popular. They apparently have a bright white light that keeps the image colour even in total darkness. The light level can be adjusted or even disabled if not needed.

 

[secureiam]

Cheers for that info as I was wary of opting for the 8mp cameras.

common resolutions:

1.3MP (720p 1280x 720)
960 (1280 x 960)
2.1MP (1080p 1920 x 1080)
4MP (2688 x 1520)
8MP(4K 4096 x 2160, but many at 3840 x 2160)

sub stream for app resolutions:-
320x240, 640x 360, 640 x 480

The sub streams for remote viewing are much lower than the 1.3MP (720) option

In some cases there is a third stream, used for smart events that can be the same as the main stream or somewhere between the main stream and sub stream values.

Downloading on a 4G or better probably not an issue, but up upload from your DVR/NVR is the most likely issue when it comes to viewing full main stream resolutions remotely.

You have to be wary with white light and infra red, in the distribution of the light for the scence, again this varies on the cameras and on the scene its self.

If the camera points down towards the ground your more likely to see a spot light effect than if its point straight out away from the property.

Sally makes a good point about spiders and the warmth of the light source, so having alternative light source may be useful if you don't wont to periodically clear the cobwebs away.

 

[Sally2000]

The spider web problem is not with the warmth of the source. The light attracts flying insects, and the spider makes its web where it knows the insects are.

 

[Pete the Feet]

common resolutions:

1.3MP (720p 1280x 720)
960 (1280 x 960)
2.1MP (1080p 1920 x 1080)
4MP (2688 x 1520)
8MP(4K 4096 x 2160, but many at 3840 x 2160)

sub stream for app resolutions:-
320x240, 640x 360, 640 x 480

The sub streams for remote viewing are much lower than the 1.3MP (720) option

In some cases there is a third stream, used for smart events that can be the same as the main stream or somewhere between the main stream and sub stream values.

Downloading on a 4G or better probably not an issue, but up upload from your DVR/NVR is the most likely issue when it comes to viewing full main stream resolutions remotely.

You have to be wary with white light and infra red, in the distribution of the light for the scence, again this varies on the cameras and on the scene its self.

If the camera points down towards the ground your more likely to see a spot light effect than if its point straight out away from the property.

Sally makes a good point about spiders and the warmth of the light source, so having alternative light source may be useful if you don't wont to periodically clear the cobwebs away.

The spider web problem is not with the warmth of the source. The light attracts flying insects, and the spider makes its web where it knows the insects are.

Interesting info thanks folks. I think it may be spiders that have given me a problem with an outside security light with a PIR.

With regards to light reflection off existing lighting and IR reflection off a nearby pillar I will first see if one of the cameras positioned over the garage can cover the front door before installing one at the door. I was initially looking for one of those outside lights with a combined camera that I could use in the system which looks something like this but with a decent camera:
https://www.castlegatelights.co.uk/...MIq7v2isnM6QIV1IBQBh3pUQ88EAQYBSABEgJUrfD_BwE

Steinel do something but it is probably tied in with their software and it looks a bit industrial.

I will now have a look for a local supplier or maybe ebay as Amazon seem to be fixed on 4 camera systems and I need 5. This afternoon I will be sorting out an alternative location for the NVR then I can measure up for cables.

Many thanks

 

[Sally2000]

Be very careful buying from eBay as some of the cameras are grey imports without UK support, or even fakes. There are official suppliers for Hikvision that give full warranty and support. I have used www.cctvempire.co.uk. There are others, but get quotations because prices can vary alarmingly for the same devices.

 

[secureiam]

have to admit don't see many flies buzzing around the IR as you do moths around white light.

https://www.mintsecurity.co.uk/how-to-keep-cctv-cameras-free-of-spider-webs/

Only ever buy from authorised distributors and resellers, you can usually check these on the manufacturers website.

Note:- be wary online of claims of say Hikvision, when in fact the DVR/NVR maybe be Hikvision but the cameras are not, check model numbers.

 

[Pete the Feet]

have to admit don't see many flies buzzing around the IR as you do moths around white light.

https://www.mintsecurity.co.uk/how-to-keep-cctv-cameras-free-of-spider-webs/

Only ever buy from authorised distributors and resellers, you can usually check these on the manufacturers website.

Note:- be wary online of claims of say Hikvision, when in fact the DVR/NVR maybe be Hikvision but the cameras are not, check model numbers.

Most of the sites I come across are set up for Trade only by the look of them. When I was working a couple of lads who worked for our security contractor offered to do the job and it now sounds as if it was a cheaper option than buying and installing the kit myself. However I am looking forward to the install once I source the relevant parts. I'm based in the Rochdale area and noticed that you are Lancashire based. If you can recommend any reputable suppliers that an amateur would deal with I would be grateful.

Many thanks

 

[secureiam]

Hi Pete,

none of my suppliers would deal with you directly unfortunately.
sent you a pm.

 

[Mixu]

The other key install criteria is location of the NVR recorder. If fitted underneath the TV in the living room would the constant whirring of the disc drive be annoying or would an SSD be a better option?

Consumer grade SSDs are not meant for 24/7 usage, nor are consumer grade conventional hard disks. SSD have limited write cycles, you propably knew it? From the other hand, you can very well use 5400rpm conventional hard disk designed for NAS use. Those are silent and usually energy efficient. WD RED series is one good example. My cctv-recorder, conventional mini-PC (6 FHD cameras) has NVMe SSD for Windows and software and 500GB 2.5" 7200rpm laptop hard disk for recordings, since I happened to have spare 2.5" disk. It's completely silent. Of course high performance drive (7200rpm) isn't really required for six cameras. I see no reason why NVR would make more noise with good NAS disk designed for 24/7 operations.

 

[Pete the Feet]

Many thanks for the info on here Ladies and Gents and I have taken it on board. Wayne of Secure I AM has been a great help in selecting and getting the equipment for me at a decent price. What has been more important has been the technical help in setting it up. I don't think I could have done it without his assistance in all honesty. I moved the intended placement of the NVR as Sally2000 stated and I'm glad that I did. The NVR does make a slight noise and I wouldn't have wanted that in my living room for both the security as Sally pointed out and the noise. The initial downside to this was accessing the NVR set up and view directly as the two Bluetooth mouse's that I tried were a bit hit and miss. The web browser access is quite good but the viewing of playback hasn't the same capability of the direct to NVR. However I obtained a very long USB extension cable and ran it to the living room along with a very long HDMI cable. Plugging the mouse Bluetooth dongle into the extension lead did the trick.
The NVR has a Seagate Skyhawk disc in it which is as Mixu stated a disc suited for NVR usage. I may be a little sensitive to noise as I recently fitted one of these and whilst the Mrs can't hear it, I can.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/SpeedComfo...592858851&sprefix=speedcomfort,aps,140&sr=8-1

Anyway all in all I'm very pleased with my CCTV system. Next item on the agenda is a video doorbell that I can link into the NVR rather than pay rental for cloud storage on a Ring doorbell.

Many thanks everybody.