Mortar/packing around padstone and steel

[davidmiller]

Hello, am I correct in thinking that having nothing between padstone and beam is ok for building control. And is steel shims and no mortar ok if needed.
Also as the gap between the top of beam and concrete blocks will need to be pushed in with a dry 3 and 1 mix, is 10mm bed with a few shims in there (to give instant support) ok or should it be thicker? Thanks.

 

[^woody^]

The beam should bear directly on to its designed bearing.

Otherwise whatever is between them should have been included in the design

 

[jks7492]

Yes beam sat directly onto padstone ideally.
Normally pack between the top of steel and masonry with steel or slate shims

 

[davidmiller]

The beam should bear directly on to its designed bearing.

Otherwise whatever is between them should have been included in the design

Fair enough. I don't do these often and the last time I did this sort of thing the BCO wanted a bed in between. The old boy I worked with said we should ignore him.

Yes beam sat directly onto padstone ideally.
Normally pack between the top of steel and masonry with steel or slate shims

Sounds like I won't need a mixer then.
Anyone know where to buy steel shims?

Also there's a section where the ends of some joists sit on a beam. There's going to be a 10-20mm gap between them. Is there a preferred material to fill them.
Cheers

 

[Markbon]

I had an inspector a while ago who didnt want roofing slates. How about Jewson etc for the steel shims?

 

[^woody^]

What's wrong with bedding the padstone up?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Anyone know where to buy steel shims?

Any steel fabricator with a guillotine or shear should be able to cut you a selection from the odds and sods bin

 

[davidmiller]

Sorry everyone I didn't get an alert.

I had an inspector a while ago who didnt want roofing slates. How about Jewson etc for the steel shims?

What's wrong with bedding the padstone up?

Do you mean slide the padstone under a propped up beam?

Any steel fabricator with a guillotine or shear should be able to cut you a selection from the odds and sods bin

Good idea.

 

[^woody^]

Do you mean slide the padstone under a propped up beam?

I do

 

[davidmiller]

I do

Yes I think that way is best.
I'm not sure about between the steel and the course of blocks about that.

 

[^woody^]

What you would do is prepare the bearing below the padstone by allowing for the depth of the beam plus the depth of the padstone plus 10mm or so. Jack the beam up tight, lay the padstone bed, slide it in, lever it up or wedge some small bits of slate in, then ram more mortar in that point it up.

Or if you want to bed the pad stone on and then fill the gap between tit and the beam, use slate, quarry tile or a 1:1 sharp sand mix no more than 10mm. None of this hunting around for metal shims malarky.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

None of this hunting around for metal shims malarky.

Yes, that's just what steel erectors do (they generally bring a selection of shims with them in the van) - and some of the brickies I've worked with. The main reason for shims seems to be speed - no waiting for mortar to go off. I'm not saying it is the best way, nor the worst

 

[^woody^]

Yes, that's just what steel erectors do (they generally bring a selection of shims with them in the van) - and some of the brickies I've worked with. The main reason for shims seems to be speed - no waiting for mortar to go off. I'm not saying it is the best way, nor the worst

Never seen or touched a shim in my life!

I'd always have lots of slate though, as it's the same slate that is needed to pack the wall or joists that the beam is meant to hold up.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

On some of the heavier jobs I've actually been instructed to install steel shims by the S/E. I tend to do more or less what the drawings say to do - that saves a lot of arguments later on!

 

[davidmiller]

What you would do is prepare the bearing below the padstone by allowing for the depth of the beam plus the depth of the padstone plus 10mm or so. Jack the beam up tight, lay the padstone bed, slide it in, lever it up or wedge some small bits of slate in, then ram more mortar in that point it up.

Or if you want to bed the pad stone on and then fill the gap between tit and the beam, use slate, quarry tile or a 1:1 sharp sand mix no more than 10mm. None of this hunting around for metal shims malarky.

What I like about the first paragraph option is the padstone being put in last and out of the way until the end means there will be more room to manoeuvre the steel in place.

Advantage of the second paragraph is it's load bearing quicker.
But at some point I've misunderstood you because I thought you said earlier in the thread that nothing should come between the padstone and the steel including mortar?

And if say 20-30mm needs building up between the steel and joists for example is that done with several roof slates or can you buy thicker ones?

On some of the heavier jobs I've actually been instructed to install steel shims by the S/E. I tend to do more or less what the drawings say to do - that saves a lot of arguments later on!

I wish there was a bit more instruction with these drawings.