moving cables

[exkenny]

I’ve recently had some work done in my house. I’ve got electric storage heaters. I wish to put a new ceiling in my main living room. One reason to hide existing cables and pipe work (as old house and single floor boards above main room.

To make it easy for me, I wish to cut two cables so as to move them easy so I can put new ceiling in.

The cables are for one electric storage heater 3.4kw and one cable for normal domestic mains cable.

I’ve looked in B&Q and they have a nice little 30amp 3 terminal junction box. Could I use 2 of these to join the cable (1 for each cable) making sure the right cables are reconnected of course.

It seems easy enough to do, can you see any problem??

 

[ban-all-sheds]

normal domestic mains cable.

All the cables in your house are normal domestic mains cables....

I’ve looked in B&Q and they have a nice little 30amp 3 terminal junction box. Could I use 2 of these to join the cable (1 for each cable) making sure the right cables are reconnected of course.

Will they be accessible afterwards?

If not then you shouldn't do it.

Can't you replace the lengths of cable concerned?

 

[exkenny]

normal domestic mains cable.

All the cables in your house are normal domestic mains cables....

I’ve looked in B&Q and they have a nice little 30amp 3 terminal junction box. Could I use 2 of these to join the cable (1 for each cable) making sure the right cables are reconnected of course.

Will they be accessible afterwards?

If not then you shouldn't do it.




Well its going to be boarded up and then plastered over it will be all clipped in nice and neat safe. It will be near the end/edge of a board, so if needed it could be got to if a real problem but cannot see one once it’s all screwed in and made safe/good

Can't you replace the lengths of cable concerned?

not really its a bit tricky for me I would have to get a sparky in maybe

 

[Taylortwocities]

Perhaps. Make sure he does not use junction boxes unless they are accessible. Hidden in ceiling voids under laminate flooring is not accessible.

 

[exkenny]

Perhaps. Make sure he does not use junction boxes unless they are accessible. Hidden in ceiling voids under laminate flooring is not accessible.

I was looking at another thread about something similar to my question, this chap had a sparky use `choc a blocks`.

The thing is my house (or this part of it) is very old was built in 1846. This part I’m talking about is just bare wood/beams on the ceiling (not good type other wise would have left it). There is other electrical cable going along the wood at the top, mains cable for lights and switches. These go in to junction boxes so what would happen to these; I’m only doing something similar. It would be all secure and connected up 100%. I was going to pack the ceiling with loft insulation as well.

I suppose I could make a plan/picture of the ceiling of where these junction boxes are located. After looking again at the wires I was going to move. One I could get away with NOT cutting, I could move/shorten it (after taking it out of the switch/socket it was going to) and reconnect it back up.

Its only One now that I would have to put in a 30amp junction box

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I was looking at another thread about something similar to my question, this chap had a sparky use `choc a blocks`.

They are still screwed connections - should be accessible for inspection, testing, maintenance.

There is other electrical cable going along the wood at the top, mains cable for lights and switches. These go in to junction boxes so what would happen to these; I’m only doing something similar.

You shouldn't render the existing ones inaccessible either.

It would be all secure and connected up 100%. I was going to pack the ceiling with loft insulation as well.

Cables in insulation can't carry as much current, you'll need to re-route them or replace them with larger ones.

 

[JohnW2]

Cables in insulation can't carry as much current, you'll need to re-route them or replace them with larger ones.

Shouldn't that read "....you may need to re-route them or replace them with larger ones"?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[exkenny]

I was looking at another thread about something similar to my question, this chap had a sparky use `choc a blocks`.

They are still screwed connections - should be accessible for inspection, testing, maintenance.

There is other electrical cable going along the wood at the top, mains cable for lights and switches. These go in to junction boxes so what would happen to these; I’m only doing something similar.

You shouldn't render the existing ones inaccessible either.

It would be all secure and connected up 100%. I was going to pack the ceiling with loft insulation as well.

Cables in insulation can't carry as much current, you'll need to re-route them or replace them with larger ones.

Well you have brought me to a stand still with this, This has made what looked like a small job into a big one. Is this all really needed. The reason why I say this is I had major work in the other part of my house added more bedrooms and extra bathroom etc. Some walls that were their before it started had to be worked on again re-plaster etc. Electric switches that were there had to be took out etc and put back in, the only thing is the heights have all been changed because of newer building reg` it looks stupid. Light switches now lower and mains sockets now higher. Is this work I want to do just the same as this newer building reg` code is it really needed. I just want to do it myself it does not look a big job. But to rip out all the other cables and replace them or reroute them just seems madness.

Is what I want to do really that bad is it really a high risk job if I cut one cable and join it back together using a 30amp Junction box

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Shouldn't that read "....you may need to re-route them or replace them with larger ones"?

You reckon?

The cables are for one electric storage heater 3.4kw and one cable for normal domestic mains cable.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Well you have brought me to a stand still with this, This has made what looked like a small job into a big one. Is this all really needed.

Re the concealed junction boxes and/or choc-block. The Wiring Regulations require them to be accessible.

The Wiring Regulations are not statutory, but it is a pretty good idea to follow them.

Re the cables. This is not a nicety. A cable which overheats because it's covered in thermal insulation can start a fire.

Electric switches that were there had to be took out etc and put back in, the only thing is the heights have all been changed because of newer building reg` it looks stupid. Light switches now lower and mains sockets now higher.

I'm afraid whoever did that, or told you to do that, was wrong, and did not understand the Building Regulations. There was no need to change the heights of the sockets and switches.

Is this work I want to do just the same as this newer building reg` code is it really needed. I just want to do it myself it does not look a big job. But to rip out all the other cables and replace them or reroute them just seems madness.

Ye cannae change the laws of physics.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/4.3.1.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/20080213151445/http://www.kevinboone.com/cableselection_web.pdf

As JohnW2 says, I might have been too absolute, but the usual 2.5mm² cable used for 30/32A ring final socket circuits can easily be rendered unsuitable by insulation.

 

[JohnW2]

Shouldn't that read "....you may need to re-route them or replace them with larger ones"?

You reckon?

The cables are for one electric storage heater 3.4kw and one cable for normal domestic mains cable.

Well, maybe you know the size of the current cables, and exactly what installation Method we would be talking about - I don't.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[1john]

You could presume that the cable is sized correctly for a 3.4kw load with the installation method being in free air, clipped direct, perhaps with a grouping factor, now this cable is going to be in insulations, odds on it will need up sizing or it will be very overloaded.

I know, presumtion is the mother of all F'kups

 

[exkenny]

You could presume that the cable is sized correctly for a 3.4kw load with the installation method being in free air, clipped direct, perhaps with a grouping factor, now this cable is going to be in insulations, odds on it will need up sizing or it will be very overloaded.

I know, presumtion is the mother of all F'kups

well originally it was in trunking which was on the top of the wall near the ceiling. I want to move them a bit higher into this new ceiling. Their will be a few other cables up their as well. What if I did not put any insulation near these cables and just clipped them up higher but with nothing near them they would have loads of room and nothing on top of them so would have empty space all round them

 

[JohnW2]

You could presume that the cable is sized correctly for a 3.4kw load with the installation method being in free air, clipped direct, perhaps with a grouping factor, now this cable is going to be in insulations, odds on it will need up sizing or it will be very overloaded.
I know, presumtion is the mother of all F'kups

Quite. You are quite possibly correct in your reasoning but, as you say, it's a presumption. I was merely pointing out that BAS's assertion (which he has now moderated) that up-sizing would be required was, indeed, a presumption which was not inevitably true.

In fact, the worst-case insulation method is probably Method 101, in which case it looks to me as if a 2.5mm² cable (which I imagine is very likley what it is) ought to be OK, provided there is no grouping (or any present grouping is 'undone'), shouldn't it?

Kind Regards, John.