moving old sockets

[pippo]

Hi there,

I wish to move the three sockets in my living room about a meter each so they are into the corners and change them to doubles. its an old house and they are wired from below the floorboards (I have stripped off the skirting and the cable drops down behind the baton which the skirting fixes to, and there only seems to be one thick grey cable at each point). I am also going to fit flush stainless sockets if possible. my first question is, should the wiring be coming from below the floorboards like they are and behind a baton ? and if so can i just extend the cables under floor for the new sockets? also, the sockets at the moment are surface mounted and plastic, and as i will be fitting metal countersunk cages for chrome fronts should the cages be earthed from the earth wire?

thanks in advance for any help, i will try to answer any further questions if required.

pippo

 

[RF Lighting]

If there is only one cable at each point, then this sounds like an unusual circuit arrangement.


Can you post us a couple of pictures of the wiring, and your consumer unit / fuse box?

Do you know a local electrician who could take a look and assess wether the wiring is suitable to be reused?

As you sound to be in the process of refurbishing this room, now would be the perfect time to have this room rewired.

 

[pippo]

hi RF, thanks for the reply,

You were right about the wiring, after taking a further look when i was there today (move in couple weeks), i noticed two cables running to the box. I also had a few floor boards up and they are as suspected running underfloor and up behind the skirting baton. I also had a look inside one of the sockets which had 2 sets of red/black/green wires. (well the green was only sheaved inside the socket). The fuse box is very old looking and uses glass fuses. I can try to upload pics but it may be a couple of days before i am back there. Im guessing from other threads that these cables are forming a loop between the sockets, and as long as the two cables terminate together in the new socket in the same way, they should be fine, and if the cables are not long enough i can extend using some kind of electrical joint, does that sound ok ? Im hoping that i dont have to completely rewire and chase cables into roof and down walls as it would be getting tricky, however if this is required ill probably get an electrician in anyway.

 

[JohnD]

glass fuses

were the wires solid-core or stranded?

Do you remember what colour the cable sheath was?

We're going to like the pictures

 

[pippo]

er... the cables were solid core i think, brittle and looked like copper (well in colour at least) . All the main cables are grey with red cables, black cables and i think the green is bare inside the grey cable with green sheathing inside the sockets/switches. Ill be able to get pictures tomorrow and post them in the evening. I take it that this is an old system then lol. The house was built in the 30's apparently .

Another problem is the distance from the brick wall to the surface of plaster, it was around 3/4 inch (18mm). can i buy socket cages for this size or will i have to knock out some masonary in order to have a flush fitted socket.

 

[Click-Sure]

Its not the original wiring for the 30's as you'd be finding some rubber cable thats WAY past its sell-by date, might be worth having a look around to see if there is any black rubber cable around thats still in use. BUT: be warned, it will be very very brittle by now and should not be touched as the rubber will probably fall off leaving bare conductors

The fact that the earth wire inside the sockets is sheathed in pure green and not green/yellow suggests the wiring in the living room is pre mid-1970's or was installed by a DIY'er after that time who had some of the old green sheath in the shed (yes, seen it used in systems with harmonised colours).

Standard 2 gang steel galvanised back boxes are 25mm deep, so you will need to bash a bit of masonry out, but this isn't as hard as it looks. You do really need that 25mm of space for a double socket, any damage to surrounding plaster is easily fixed.

Edit: I would suggest you get a pro spark in to have a look at your system and maybe even a PIR (Periodic Inspection Report) of your system. Ooh, cant wait to see the pics.

 

[pippo]

im scared to switch anything on again . ive opened up sockets in most of the rooms and they all have the solid green. all the cables under the floor and from the fuse box (in cupboard in living room) are grey. So from what you are saying i recon it was rewired around the 70s. were the systems so bad back then that i shouled get it checked? and why are people looking forward to seeing the pics so much ? im worried about the place now lol.

 

[JohnD]

grey cable sheath, green earth, solid cores sounds like 1970's PVC, will be in fair condition, but standards have improved a lot since then, and in the last 30 years or so it has probably had DIY alterations and extensions of varying quality, so would benefit from being looked at.

IIRC the Green earth sheath changed to green with a single yellow trace on it round about 1975. Can be quite faint as it was surface-applied not moulded in.

You most likely have a Wylex rewirable fusebox, if it is brown it is long overdue for replacement, if it is cream not so urgent but it's well out of date (this is a rough rule of thumb)

If you are very lucky you will find green slime on some of the copper connections, this is a form of deterioration that is unwelcome to you, but very exciting as it is quite rare.

p.s. I don't like the sound of you lengthening the old cables, you would do far better to rewire the room. This is not very difficult to do, you will probably be able to see where the 1970's electrician led the cables in. But you may do better to find a recommended local electrician and verify that he is a member of a self-certification scheme, rather than learning enough to do it properly yourself.

 

[Click-Sure]

Sorry to scare you there pippo!

I wonder if RF has got any pictures of green slime? Or at the very least a mass of green crystals...

 

[pippo]

Ah i see. I will get a pro in to have a look at it then to be on the safe side. My girlfriends brother is an electrician but he is from Ireland. He is heading over at the end of march and said he would be happy to help. If i get him to update the system, will it be legal as he is Irish certified? Im asuming that fuse box work etc needs to be signed off on completion.

 

[JohnD]

Scots law is different from English, I believe you need a Warrant, but I don't know, sorry. You may find something on your local authority's website.

What's Fife like?

 

[pippo]

If i find any green slime in my sockets ill be calling the ghostbusters never mind an electrician lol. I will get a pro out and ask him about the warrant for the work.

thanks for all the advise, excellent website.

 

[pippo]

ok i have some pictures now, how do i upload them here ?

 

[JohnD]

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=99672

and
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n228/JohnD_UK/NakedWife.jpg

 

[pippo]

ok thanks for that,

here we go, i hope.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/pippo777/DSC00888.jpg

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/pippo777/DSC00874.jpg

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/pippo777/DSC00870.jpg

there seems to be plenty of slack on the cables under the floors. they are not very tidy but plenty length. The cables seem in decent condition, are they the 2.5mm2 cables which i can have linked into a 32A mcb when the new cu is installed or should the wires be completely renewed ?