Moving wall lights.....

[bobdabuilda]

I think I already know the answer to this one but I will just confirm for my own peace of mind!

The scenario- a large lounge with 3 wall lights and a dimmer switch (standard config) The position of the two wall lights on the far wall is pretty pants and therefore both need shifting 12 inches (one to the right and one to the left). The walls are dry lined dot and dabbed over aircon blocks. The ceiling is going to be skimmmed over to get rid of horrendous artex stipple but the coving is to be left in situ.
Now I know that the correct and logical procedure is to make a dirty great hole in the wall, coving and ceiling above where the existing wall lights are and then run new cables from junction boxes in the ceiling to the new positions..... BUT

the wife doesn't want me to do this due to work/ cost implications so the other option I have considered is running a 12" horizontal spur from the existing positions to the new.

I would chase out the aircon block to bury the spur cable 2 inches and then place a 8mm steel rod in front of it for protection. To protect the spur connections in the existing architrave box I was going to put a blank plate over it. Obviously the wife is NOT HAPPY with the aesthetics of this, so can I wallpaper over the plate and still be compliant with existing regs or is this a big no no?

Ideally I'd like to plaster over the plate but this then negates the visibility aspect and access for maintenance part of the regs I presume?


Any advice apart from getting rid of the wife is gratefully received!

 

[Adam_151]

What you described sounds like a bit of a bodge

Can you get above? With it being dot and dab you should be able to make a hole at the new lighting position and fish behind the plasterboard, at the top you'll probably find you will have to make another small hole below the drill up at an angle behind the coving and arrive under the boards up stairs, and if you are really lucky you will be able to pull the cable up and have it long enough to reach the new position, if not, then you'll have to either replace it, or joint it under the floorboards with a maintence free joint box, or through crimps in a suitable box

 

[bobdabuilda]

I know that the correct method would be to do what I said initially and I agree re it being a bodge but wouldn't it be compliant with the current regs?

The dot and dab is so copious as to be an almost continuous layer behind the board from light position upto ceiling/coving so fishing with a rod is out of the question but I suppose i could pull the boards up upstairs for access and try .... don't hold much hope of that though

 

[Adam_151]

With the blank plates present and visible it would be compliant, with the boxes filled with plaster/papered over, blanking plates papered over (which I imagine looking damn horrible to boot) it would not be compliant

you need to be able to see where the cable runs to avoid drilling into it, any screwed connections need to be accessible for maintenance and connections need to be in a suitable enclosure rather than in an open box and then filled with plaster (which is a sure fire way to get insulation resistance faults)

 

[bobdabuilda]

With the blank plates present and visible it would be compliant, with the boxes filled with plaster/papered over, blanking plates papered over (which I imagine looking damn horrible to boot) it would not be compliant

Thanks that is what I thought.


Not sure where you get this bit from as I didn't say this!

connections need to be in a suitable enclosure rather than in an open box and then filled with plaster (which is a sure fire way to get insulation resistance faults)

 

[riveralt]

Junction Boxes have to be accessible - I would argue that jbs under bedroom floors for downstairs links are accessible if the particular board is say screwed down, marked and easily accessible - there is no definition of how quick you must be able to access the jb - I think.

If you accept that argument then covering a jb with a blanking plate and then covering with wallpaper would also be classed as accessible.

You problem comes when you consider whether the jb will be within the safe zones i.e. horizontally or vertically to an accessory or consumer unit.

If it meets this definition and you accept the argument above then it is within the regulations.

I'm sure if I'm wrong - I will be duly flamed.

 

[bobdabuilda]

Junction Boxes have to be accessible - I would argue that jbs under bedroom floors for downstairs links are accessible if the particular board is say screwed down, marked and easily accessible - there is no definition of how quick you must be able to access the jb - I think.

If you accept that argument then covering a jb with a blanking plate and then covering with wallpaper would also be classed as accessible.

You problem comes when you consider whether the jb will be within the safe zones i.e. horizontally or vertically to an accessory or consumer unit.

If it meets this definition and you accept the argument above then it is within the regulations.

I'm sure if I'm wrong - I will be duly flamed.

What is the distance of the safe zone horizontally from an accessory? Mine would be 12" so would it be within the zone? Thanks

 

[riveralt]

Have a read of this on wiki

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:installation_techniques:walls

If I read your initial post correctly the cables to your wall lights are vertical - ie they go up to the first floor - you then intend to the turn left of right by 300mm and the jb would be were the original wall light was.

If the jb is exposed - no problem - because that would be classed as an accessory with safe zones vertical and horizontal from this point. The arguments will flow if it buried - now if it buried in a steel jb properly earthed then I would say you have to continue that protection vertically upward from the buried steel jb. Which is a lot of work.

To be perfectly honest, as suggested before go upstairs lift up the floorboards and find the cables that are supplying your wall lights and see if it is possible to move the cables to the point you want - less hassle and less mess.

Alternatively buy wall lights with a big base and make the cable connections inside the base.

 

[bobdabuilda]

Yes you have it spot on there. Cheers for the advice, it looks like attempting it from upstairs or the original plan A are the best options.

lol re the large based wall light- I don't think they do one 12" in diameter !

 

[Adam_151]

What is the distance of the safe zone horizontally from an accessory? Mine would be 12" so would it be within the zone? Thanks

its not 100% what you are asking, but I am assuming you mean "What defines the bounds of a safe zone?"

If so then the answer is the bounds of the accessory itself, theres a picture in the diynot wiki

 

[bobdabuilda]

Cheers Adam, much appreciated.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If so then the answer is the bounds of the accessory itself.

But not the bounds of the appliance, irrespective of size, surely?

 

[Adam_151]

If so then the answer is the bounds of the accessory itself.

But not the bounds of the appliance, irrespective of size, surely?

I'm not sure what you are getting at ban; the safe zone for a lightswitch will be ~80mm wide, while a fuseboard will be likely somewhere nearer 300mm, as that is the width of the fitting. Its just the outside edges projected vertically upto the ceilling....

Or have I mis-understood the question?

 

[1john]

I think what he is refering to is that the safe zone in this pic for instance would be the boundries of the wall mounted section, not the whole light fitting, shades and all!! http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Images/Products/size_3/ETEM2CP.JPG

 

[Adam_151]

Ah, and if you hung a bit of christmas tinsel between two such fittings, then the whole wall would be the safe zone... until it was removed

I can't deal with questions that far outside the boundries of normal common sense that late at night