Mystery leak is messing with my head - please help solve!

[LottieWeb]

Dear all,

I have a leak that I just don’t understand. I think the freeholder, whose office I am wetting, is going to take out a hit on me, or at least going to get legalistic, if I don’t stop it soon. Please give me your suggestions as to what it could be and/or what I should do to make sure it stops.


Background:

I’ve owned my flat for 20 years – first floor, 1980s build, concrete floors, office underneath. The bathroom was pretty cruddy, but no history of leaks. I had a new bathroom fitted 2.5 years ago, and the leaks started. It’s tenanted.

The plumber came back a few times and resealed the bath, refitted the waste pipes, changed the shower screen. After each visit the leak goes for a bit, then comes back.

I got another plumber and he did the same sort of stuff. He also found that the overflow pipe hadn’t been attached properly. Leak goes away then comes back.


This is what I know about the leak:

• It’s sporadic – sometimes nothing for weeks
  
  
• Sometimes it’s a bit (damp/few drips) and sometimes a lot (water running through light-fitting).
  
  
• Doesn’t last long before it tails off - 15/30 minutes or so ….although not totally sure as it’s often unnoticed (it’s in a stairwell in an office that is empty at weekends).
  

The only thing I can pinpoint is that some of the leaks happened when the tenants used the bath. They used to use the shower daily and the bath very occasionally, which may explain the sporadic part.

Now they have a baby and use the bath more, yet the leak is still only occasional. The last big leak (first for a while) happened again when they were using the bath – but why now and not other times?? It was a shallow bath for their baby. They didn’t use the showerhead and there was no super-splash-session .

The last leak was a big one, and also happened just after the offices had been refurbed so very embarrassing. I got the plumber/ builder back and asked him to remove the bath, tank the floor, replace all the pipes and just look to find the leak once and for all. He said there was no point as with pipework was all good, just some minor sealant gaps. He sprayed the overflow with the shower to demonstrate that it was fine.

The science bit:

I did my own experiments. I filled the bath and emptied it. No leak.

I filled the bath up to the overflow and water poured out of the pipe, so he sealed it.


Conclusion??

So there was an issue with the overflow connection, but I can’t see how enough water goes down an overflow from a shallow bath to cause such a leak. Or does it?

The overflow pipe has been resealed before. How come it keeps failing?

Could there be another issue connected to the emptying of the bath that would be intermittent?


I really, really don’t want it to leak again. What could I do? Is there any super absorbent stuff I can put under the bath that flashes red and calls the plumber when it gets wet? I bought some little leak detectors from Amazon, but don’t know how effective they will be.

Please let me have your thoughts. I hate conflict and am feeling sick.

xx

 

[it's not that hard]

A plumber that only does maintenance should be able to eventually find the leak,when I am at a loss I put newspaper down,this should indicate the area that is leaking,
one experience I had when I was in a bathroom and couldn't find what was leaking but obviously was judging by the damp patch on the ceiling, I went to the van and came back to find the bathroom door shut,somebody had got out of bed and was having a bath,popped down the road for a coffee, came back and the floor was running with water,that was the problem as simple as that.

 

[hazetimesfive]

It's leaking down the thread of the taps.

edit - having fully read your post perhaps not, but I had this many times when people were rinsing the bath with the shower head.

 

[LottieWeb]

You're both kind of right. One time someone had wandered off and left the bath, and the taps were another thing that was initially badly sealed.

I think there may have initially been a problem with general water getting on the floor from rubbish bath screen etc, but not to the extent of it pouring through the lights.

Is it at all possible to tank under a bath with the bath in place? I guess I could use a shallowish bowl or something.

 

[hazetimesfive]

the short answer is no.

 

[HERTS P&D]

What part of London are you in?

Andy

 

[it's not that hard]

What part of London are you in?

Andy

her names lottie not andy

 

[picasso]

Is your flat the only one on that floor ? is there another bathroom back to back with yours ? with concrete floors the water can travel before it finds a place to drop into and has anyone checked the connections to the soill stack (especially if there are connections above your flat).

 

[it's not that hard]

looks like time for some altro flooring

 

[Agile]

I have to say that most of these intermittent leakage situations that I come across are due to inappropriate usage.

Virtually always with tenants from overseas who are accustomed to concrete floors and not our wooden floors which are not water proof.

The most amazing one was where the tenants used the shower head to "wash down the walls" !

The plumbers who do that kind of bathroom work always seem to me to be very much bodgers who just slap on a bit of silicone sealant rather than replacing any defective fittings. Probably mostly because owners don't expect to pay for a professional job.

Your situation with the overflow pipe seems to me to be a typical problem, not even noticed at first, then bodged and then still leaks again.

But filling a bath as high as the overflow is not correct usage of a bath. The overflow is a safety facility if taps are left flowing!

I would say all you need is a careful quality plumber. But I will also agree they will be hard to find. And will charge more than £45 too.

Tony

 

[LottieWeb]

Picasso - alas, there is no flat above or to the back or attached anywhere. The only other flat in the building is on the same floor but across a wide stairwell and that side of the building has its own soil stack (or at least connects well below my flat). If it's only the bath that triggers a leak, could it be the emptying of it that causes it? Maybe the volume of water going down at once causes it to back-up and reach the overflow connection, and that doesn't happen with a shower that drains continuously?

Agile - I'm thinking that it can only be something about the way they are using the bath, but they are perfectly sensible in all other ways and think its the bath that is not right rather than how they use it. They don't habitually fill the bath right up - I did that to replicate a bath left on scenario (which the admitted to doing once). That was a definite fail for the overflow pipe connection, but I would imagine some water might go down the overflow just with general sloshing around - would this be enough to cause dripping light fittings?

The other thing that strikes me as odd is that the overflow was resealed a year or so ago. Could the actual fitting just be faulty? I've owned a number of baths and none have repeatedly gone in this area. It was a good quality bath and doesn't seem to have any movement.

Contrary to most owners, I'm happy to pay to keep my flat (and the relationship with the neighbours) in good condition. So far I've spent over £1k on trying to get this fixed and used recommended contractors. Where do I find the elusive careful quality plumber? sigh ....

 

[LottieWeb]

PS, Andy, I'm in NW5

 

[endecotp]

Maybe the volume of water going down at once causes it to back-up and reach the overflow connection, and that doesn't happen with a shower that drains continuously?

That is quite plausible and easy to check.

 

[it's not that hard]

Picasso - alas, there is no flat above or to the back or attached anywhere. The only other flat in the building is on the same floor but across a wide stairwell and that side of the building has its own soil stack (or at least connects well below my flat). If it's only the bath that triggers a leak, could it be the emptying of it that causes it? Maybe the volume of water going down at once causes it to back-up and reach the overflow connection, and that doesn't happen with a shower that drains continuously?

Agile - I'm thinking that it can only be something about the way they are using the bath, but they are perfectly sensible in all other ways and think its the bath that is not right rather than how they use it. They don't habitually fill the bath right up - I did that to replicate a bath left on scenario (which the admitted to doing once). That was a definite fail for the overflow pipe connection, but I would imagine some water might go down the overflow just with general sloshing around - would this be enough to cause dripping light fittings?

The other thing that strikes me as odd is that the overflow was resealed a year or so ago. Could the actual fitting just be faulty? I've owned a number of baths and none have repeatedly gone in this area. It was a good quality bath and doesn't seem to have any movement.

Contrary to most owners, I'm happy to pay to keep my flat (and the relationship with the neighbours) in good condition. So far I've spent over £1k on trying to get this fixed and used recommended contractors. Where do I find the elusive careful quality plumber? sigh ....

 

[it's not that hard]

Picasso - alas, there is no flat above or to the back or attached anywhere. The only other flat in the building is on the same floor but across a wide stairwell and that side of the building has its own soil stack (or at least connects well below my flat). If it's only the bath that triggers a leak, could it be the emptying of it that causes it? Maybe the volume of water going down at once causes it to back-up and reach the overflow connection, and that doesn't happen with a shower that drains continuously?

Agile - I'm thinking that it can only be something about the way they are using the bath, but they are perfectly sensible in all other ways and think its the bath that is not right rather than how they use it. They don't habitually fill the bath right up - I did that to replicate a bath left on scenario (which the admitted to doing once). That was a definite fail for the overflow pipe connection, but I would imagine some water might go down the overflow just with general sloshing around - would this be enough to cause dripping light fittings?

The other thing that strikes me as odd is that the overflow was resealed a year or so ago. Could the actual fitting just be faulty? I've owned a number of baths and none have repeatedly gone in this area. It was a good quality bath and doesn't seem to have any movement.

Contrary to most owners, I'm happy to pay to keep my flat (and the relationship with the neighbours) in good condition. So far I've spent over £1k on trying to get this fixed and used recommended contractors. Where do I find the elusive careful quality plumber? sigh ....

The overflow pipe will have the same amount of water in as the bath it will be the same level,if the bath is fibreglass the overflow will make a tight seal if tightened,with a steel bath you have to use a spacer and washer because a steel bath is thinner than a fibreglass bath, some bath overflow combined wastes have an extra connection in to take an overflow from a wc cistern or hot water cylinder but we have no photo to check, if it does this could then be a ballvalve leaking periodically,you have to explore every probability,that's maintenance plumbing ,then again the leak could be coming from another sauce,is the kitchen adjoining,where does the waste discharge,is it from the shower,toilet,basin,we need a photo please.