National Anthem

[notb665]

It dismays me when "God Save the Queen" is played for the England football team - as it is the national anthem of the UK - not England. Scotland and Wales and occasionally Northern Ireland get their anthems played, even if they are unofficial. Fair enough "God Save the Queen" is played when it is the UK, eg the Olympics.

I think the English should have "Jerusalem" as their anthem - it's already unoffically the anthem of England, so why can't they have it at the start of a football match.

I would be interested to know if Scotland play against a non-UK side, do they play "God Save the Queen" or "Flower of Scotland"? As within the UK it would be "Flower of Scotland", I'm sure. I have seen in the past when England played Northern Ireland they have played the Northern Irish anthem - but when they beat England 1-0 not so long ago - they only played God Save The Queen.

It's all a bit of a mess and need sorting!

 

[Nige F]

jerusalem is about T`North....."dark Satanic Mills "etc we need a softlad Southern anthem too.

 

[notb665]

When you said that it reminded me of an inkling, so from answers.com:

"The reference to "dark Satanic mills", is not, as many think, a reference to steel or textile mills (which scarcely existed at the time of writing), but a satirical reference to neolithic monuments such as Stonehenge, which Blake [writer] thought were Satanic. Other interpretations are that the line was a coded jibe at either the established Church or the (then) theologically dominated universities at Oxford and Cambridge."

Hmm, religious references. Oh well, the English still need an anthem!

 

[johnny_t]

How about the Benny Hill theme. Need someone to write some words for it though.

 

[AdamW]

Jerusalem is good, and is actually all about how Jesus lived in Glastonbury (IIRC: it was our school song so we all learned about it).

There are so many patriotic songs for England, Britain and the UK.

You've got:

God Save the Queen
Rule Britannia
Jerusalem
Land of Hope and Glory (not to mention the rest of Pomp and Circumstance)
There'll always be an England (I love that one!)

Another unofficial, unpatriotic yet somehow national song is "Swing low sweet chariot". Ever since being our rugger anthem a few years back you hear it sung at all sorts of televised sporting events.

I'm pretty sure I've heard "Land of Hope and Glory" played where England is being represented.

However, "God Save the Queen" is the official national anthem of all nations in the union, and I'm pretty sure I've heard various versions used as a commonwealth anthem too.

 

[notb665]

I suppose it is whether people need to feel English or not. In the past everyone knew what England was, so no need for an identity - but the influence has faded so they need to feel special. What do you reckon? Years back England supporters used to have the Union Flag at England football matches, nowadays it is the cross of St. George (not even a saint according to the church). There has been a few St. George's day cards I have noticed, and a few pubs round my way have been serving English ales that week.

I'm never sure what I feel, I always said British, but I associate a lot with the English way, but I wasn't born in England. I have been raised here though; my parents are English too.

I do like haggis and deep-fried Mars bars though.

 

[nstreet]

in this crazy pc society that we live in i'm surpised we are allowed an anthem english or national, as we are composed of such a diverse collection of nationalities, rather than english.

 

[Big_Spark]

I have often thought that our National Anthem should be Pomp and Circumstance (Land of Hope and Glory). It is much more approriate to the England of the 21st Century.

Incidently, does anyone have any idea what our anthem was BEFORE some moron wrote God save the Queen for Victoria in the 1870's I think..

 

[johnny_t]

in this crazy pc society that we live in i'm surpised we are allowed an anthem english or national, as we are composed of such a diverse collection of nationalities, rather than english.

maybe the fact that we are means that society isn't as crazy and pc as you think ??

 

[supersparks]

talking of diverse....

the 2012 olyimpics are to have a mosque built on the site, its to be the biggest in england and will hold more muslims than the biggest church.

its to have sleeping quaters...everything, so our "muslim" "freinds" will feel welcome when they come.....

im sorry but...what country is this again...and whilst were there...whats our national religion?

hmm

well, be a nice big target for a bomb attack and hopefully full at the time.

discusts me to what levels this PC country has fallen to

 

[empip]

....the 2012 olyimpics are to have a mosque built on the site, its to be the biggest in england and will hold more muslims than the biggest church....

It will be called, the Olympic stadium .... hey there may be one of those old bombed out churches within several tens of miles for the 'throwbacks'

 

[AdamW]

Incidently, does anyone have any idea what our anthem was BEFORE some moron wrote God save the Queen for Victoria in the 1870's I think..

Yes, before that it was "God save the King"

It was first performed for George II in 1745.

its to be the biggest in england and will hold more muslims than the biggest church

To be fair, they do cram them in compared to the relative luxury of our churches. You're not even allowed in half of the church, and the half you are allowed in is at the most half-full of pews!

Anyway, it's only a proposal at the moment. Hopefully if they do build it, they will use contemporary western architecture instead of trying to make it look like part of Mecca has been planted in London.

The thing is, they'll use it. Whereas if they built a new 70,000 person CofE church, do you really think that many people would go, other than to look at it and say "Wow, that's big!"?

And do you really think they are going to attract in a whole load of people to convert to Islam just by building a big building? Blimey, the Mormons come to YOU and are you tempted? If you are that worried, start bringing people in to your religion. If your belief is to have no religion, then start knocking on people's doors and say "Hey, did you know it's all just a bunch of stories designed to try and make people be nice to each other?"

 

[kendor]

Blimey must be a different shift of mods on tonight or this thread would have been locked by now.

 

[TraineeSpark]

Not that this is a thread about religion, but why the hell do people think that everyone in this land is christian? Maybe 100 years ago, but not now. I am a Pagan, and proud of it, when I have seen the attrocities caused by christianity over the centuries.
Anyway, as to post. Our National Anthem? Why do people always say Jerusalem? I love the song, but where does it mention our country specifically? Where does it say, that we live in the only country in the world, that should be afraid of our national identity, in case it upsets illegal immigrants? Which words in Jerasulem point out a failing Health Service? Which verse says that we must endure murderers and peadophiles infesting our society?

Because surely an Anthem should depict a country as it is, and that is the way our country is today. Even our " Green and pleasant lands" have been given over to anyone but the proper heirs.

 

[AdamW]

I love the song, but where does it mention our country specifically?

... walk upon ENGLAND'S mountains green... just a guess

Paganism, i'm interested in. I've met many pagans, I go to pagan rock concerts and every year I try to get a road trip down to Salisbury together for the summer solstice (haven't managed it yet )

However, from what I've read the paganism in this country today is not the paganism followed by our forefathers in the pre-Christian days. The Burning Times saw to that. No, what we now have is Helenic neo-paganism. Hence why the deities are often referred to by their Greek names.

Comparing the pagans of today with the pagans of old is no less absurd than comparing one monothesiastic faith with another. You wouldn't call a muslim a jew, or a Christian a muslim. There is a good reason in favour of doing this though: there was a movement at the last few censi to persuade all pagans to write "pagan" as their religion, instead of "druid", "hedgwytch" or whatever else. If people can get "Jedi Knight" put on the census form, seems a bit rough that followers of a group of real, mainstream religions can't be acknowledged

Just as a matter of interest, which path do you follow?