Neighbours either side extending and drainage

[Notagain!]

Hi all,

I live in a terraced property with neighbours either side planning extensions (1 set to start in 5 months, the other possibly later this year). There is 1 drain line for foul and 1 for surface water that serves all four properties in the terrace.

We have agreed with the neighbours to our right that when they move their drains they can dig under our patio and connect back to our existing ones. However… with the neighbours on the other side now looking to extend, they would also need to dig under our patio from the other side. I am not keen on this as it will be a lot of disruption.

I have proposed, instead, that both neighbours move all 3 sets of drains at the same time (right neighbour, ours, and left neighbour), so as to enable them to achieve their goals and minimise the disruption to our garden.

Are there any issues you could see with this approach?

On of thing thing that is on my mind is responsibility for the pipes within my boundary. What are we opening ourselves to by allowing the neighbours to attach to the drains on our boundary, and what are the things to watch out for?

Kind regards,

NotAgain!

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Can you sketch a plan with the existing drains on and a proposed plan showing the proposed drains?

 

[mrrusty]

A sewer that serves more than one property is not yours to move. It belongs to the utility company. If your neighbours are planning to move shared sewers without involving the utility company and/or building control they will come unstuck big time. Here's the info from UU https://www.unitedutilities.com/hel...eral properties,is blocked, please Contact us.

 

[Murdochcat]

Have your neighbours discussed a party wall agreement with you ?

 

[^woody^]

Surely the drains will be public sewers? Therefore its not for the residents to give permission or not.

You should not let any neighbour put any private drain or connection on your property. If you are minded to, you need a solicitor and agree a wayleave, and it be recorded on all the deeds.

 

[Notagain!]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies. I have attached a picture showing:

Existing Surface drains (Blue)
Existing Foul drains (Purple)
Potential drain moves - not confirmed (Green)

I believe these were previously private sewers.

Currently, Right Neighbour has plans approved to move their own drains and connect back into the existing system.
Left Neighbour has recently expressed a desire to extend, meaning that they would need to move their drains,

It seems the most prudent course of action is to, with all proper approvals, move all drains in one go.

What I am not sure of is:

1. Is this possible?
2. Should this be done, who would be accountable for the work done, and the warranty on it (Right Neighbour and Left Neighbour would split the bill of moving my drains)
3. Are they any gotchas I am not aware of?

Re: Party Wall agreement, we declined and they are building up to, but not on, the boundary.
Re: Permission to move drains - I meant we give them permission to move them if they are authorised to do so, rather than dig up our garden to connect to drains twice.

 

[Murdochcat]

Why did you decline a party wall agreement?

And those look like public drains so you can’t do anything to them without involving the supplier

 

[mrrusty]

The drains on your property and all properties to the left are shared and hence are owned by your utility company. Nobody has any right to move them without their involvement. The only bit that is yours is from your own dedicated soil pipe to the manhole where it joins the shared sewer. The manhole itself is the responsibility of the utility company.

The drains that are wholly over the boundary of the house on the R and only serve the house on the right are owned by the house on the right, and they can move them except they can't touch the drains on your side of the boundary

 

[Notagain!]

Edited: I found the quote function, below

 

[Notagain!]

Why did you decline a party wall agreement?

And those look like public drains so you can’t do anything to them without involving the supplier

In large part, because I didn’t have time to review what that actually involved before they submitted their applications.

The little research I could do suggested that there was shared responsibility for the wall, so if it was damaged somehow or had issues, we could be liable for 50% of the replies.

The drains on your property and all properties to the left are shared and hence are owned by your utility company. Nobody has any right to move them without their involvement. The only bit that is yours is from your own dedicated soil pipe to the manhole where it joins the shared sewer. The manhole itself is the responsibility of the utility company.

The drains that are wholly over the boundary of the house on the R and only serve the house on the right are owned by the house on the right, and they can move them except they can't touch the drains on your side of the boundary

Thanks, this is really useful.

Left neighbours are engaging a drainage company to see what could be done about moving them all inline.

The goal here being we, as the ones in the middle, can enable both houses to have an extension without having to dig up our patio twice.

 

[wessex101]

In large part, because I didn’t have time to review what that actually involved before they submitted their applications.

The little research I could do suggested that there was shared responsibility for the wall, so if it was damaged somehow or had issues, we could be liable for 50% of the replies.

That is not strictly true. Whilst in general a party wall built astride the boundary is the shared responsibility of both neighbours in the case of a neighbour building a new wall for an extension the party wall agreement can be written to stipulate that the neighbour building the wall is responsible for the entire cost of building and maintaining the wall. This can be a permanent arrangement or temporary until such time as the adjoining neighbour builds an extension and encompasses the wall.
If there is any chance you may build an extension in the future I would agree to the party wall. If you play your cards right you could permanently waive your obligation to pay the cost of building the wall. If you do that for both sides that would be a significant cost saving as all you would need is the back wall and a roof. Also you and neighbours would gain a little bit of extra floor space.

 

[Murdochcat]

A party wall agreement should be in place before building commences. It’s nothing to do with planning and the best bit

The neighbour doing the work has to pay for your surveyor