New boiler options & advice please

[waveneygnome]

Sorry for the long post - but I wanted to make sure I put everything down.


I'm trying to help sort out my mums house (been neglected, she's on her own and I've been overseas. I'm now back, and she's hit 60 and I'm trying to get everything sorted for a comfy retirement)

4 bed semi, 1930's, has some loft insulation, but will top-up during renovations.

Currently has a sterling gas boiler, fitted in 1986; with 5 rads. Boiler is located in dining room with flu through chimney.....Bgas man 'condemed' it.....but when I told him it was Bgas that fitted it in 1986 he backed off a bit! She has an airing cupboard with an immersion tank. No TVRs, No room stat!

I was looking to replace the boiler and possibly the tank....and if possible add another 5 rads to the rooms currently with no heat.

Mum called BGas:

£4500 for new combi boiler fitted to utility room outside wall (they forgot to add extra rads, but will send me new quote with that option)....but.......they will knock £400 off as she's over 60; £400 off for scrappage; £100 off if i sign this week; and £100 off as I'm a nice guy to deal with......= £3500 inc vat


independent plumber who I have used before (but subsequent to asking him for a quote heard he's work quality has been slipping.......I forgot to ask him about extra rads, but at least he's quoting directly with Bgas) has said:

£3770 for Ideal Icos HE24 with flu through ceiling & roof, new 22mm gas supply, power flush, use existing tank, new controls, new expansion tank in loft

£3621 for combi Ideal Isar with flu through ceiling & roof, new 22mm gas supply, power flush, strip out old tanks, new controls.

I'm waiting for third quote for another local plumber.

1) I'm not sure which boiler type to go for (single person, bigish house)
2) I have read on here several times that Bgas are normally expensive
3) I have read on here several times that Ideal are to be avoided
4) I've had good experience with an oil fired worcester....are they any good for gas?

Any advice appreciated.
WG

 

[gas4you]

I would avoid Ideal boilers at all costs.

BG will usually be at least 50% dearer than a good local installer, even after all their so called discounts and pressurised selling techniques to get you to sign quickly.

Personally I would not touch Worcester with a barge pole.

The quality has slipped and slipped and are a pig to work on.

I would have thought that you would probably get a new boiler and the 5 rads for around the £4500 BG quote for just the boiler, and that would include a full 5 years manufacturers warranty.

Contact me from my profile if you require a further quote

 

[adlplumbing]

avoid the them types of ideals they break down too easy

 

[waveneygnome]

After months of trying to get a quote from a local independant for my mums boiler.......I finally have one!

(I can seriously see why people use BG....I had no idea it was so difficult getting quotes. My 'regular' local has been round twice to fit new taps & fix a leak, each time promising to quote,..but never does. I have now contacted all 8 gas-safe plumbers in a 20 mile radius and received two quotes)

a) BG = £3500 inc vat for an unknown combi boiler, taking out tanks ect. But the boiler would have to go in one of mums bedrooms - which she is not keen for.

b) Local guy 1 = £3770 inc vat for Ideal Icos HE24 with flu through ceiling & roof of downstairs utility, new 22mm gas supply, power flush, use existing tank, new controls, new expansion tank in loft

OR

£3621 for combi Ideal Isar with flu through ceiling & roof of downstairs utility, new 22mm gas supply, power flush, strip out old tanks, new controls.

c) Local guy 2 = £3450 +vat for WB 24Ri fitted in loft, new cylinder/immersion, new pump & valves, new timeclock, new gas supply 22mm pipework, condensate pipework to new soakaway beneath patio, rasie exsiting header tanks, flue through tiled roof, flush system. 6yr WB gtee on boiler.

From reading all the posts on here.....I don't particularly like any of the above options.

Not sure where to go from here.

Any advice greatly appreciated.
WG

 

[Alfredo]

Just don't have an Ideal boiler, their history is fraught with problems Fit either a Vaillant or a Viessman or a Glow Worm, or a Worcester 28i Junior combi. They aren't bad to work on and quality is OK

Why do these people go for Ideal Icos and Isar. They are not nice, seriously. I'm not that keen on boilers in lofts unless access is **** easy. How does the installer propose you or mother access it?

Alfredo

 

[D_Hailsham]

has some loft insulation, but will top-up during renovations.

There are many cheap/free schemes. Check Energy Savings Trust Grant Search

I was looking to replace the boiler and possibly the tank....and if possible add another 5 rads to the rooms currently with no heat.

Sounds an admirable idea. Many installers will recommend a combi boiler (instant hot water). That may be OK when there is only one occupier, but not a good idea when there is a family. Replacing the HW tank is more future proof.

Mum called BGas:

£4500 for new combi boiler fitted to utility room outside wall (they forgot to add extra rads, but will send me new quote with that option)....but.......they will knock £400 off as she's over 60; £400 off for scrappage; £100 off if i sign this week; and £100 off as I'm a nice guy to deal with......= £3500 inc vat

Still over the top - and it's a combi -what did I tell you!!

independent plumber who I have used before (but subsequent to asking him for a quote heard he's work quality has been slipping.......I forgot to ask him about extra rads, but at least he's quoting directly with Bgas) has said:

£3770 for Ideal Icos HE24 with flu through ceiling & roof, new 22mm gas supply, power flush, use existing tank, new controls, new expansion tank in loft

£3621 for combi Ideal Isar with flu through ceiling & roof, new 22mm gas supply, power flush, strip out old tanks, new controls.

Still over the top -and another combi merchant!

I'm waiting for third quote for another local plumber.

Three quotes are normally sufficient. Just make sure you ask for references before you decide who to use.

1) I'm not sure which boiler type to go for (single person, bigish house)

Anything but a combi (future proofing)

Use the Boiler Size Calculator to find out what size boiler you need (It assumes it will not be a combi). You can do before and after cals, with and without insulation, to see the difference.

2) I have read on here several times that Bgas are normally expensive
3) I have read on here several times that Ideal are to be avoided[/quote
That's the general consensus.

4) I've had good experience with an oil fired worcester....are they any good for gas?

They have a good reputation for gas, probably better than for their oil boilers!

 

[petit_pablo]

What makes having a cylinder future proof? A decent sized combi will be fine running a bathroom with kitchen and cloakroom.

OP avoid ideal boilers, nohting wrong with haing a combi especially if your mums on her own. Sod whoever moves in 10 years down the line, its not them your buying the boiler for

 

[waveneygnome]

Thanks for the swift replies.

The loft has great access - ladder, fully boarded, light and amazing completely empty as I forced my brother & sister to clear out there c@@p before they buggered off to warmer climates.

Re: combi option - I was hoping to avoid this option as it is a big house, and if it were to be sited in the loft, would mean a long wait for hot water in the kitchen.

I'm definitely leaning towards to WB 24Ri route....but the price has still surprised me........note this is replace the boiler/resite/upgrade controls - not add the extra 5 rads.

Like most of us I love my mum to bits and don't want to lead her into a cold, unreliable heating system.

Thanks
WG

 

[petit_pablo]

The worcester Ri quote isnt too bad assuming the old boiler is a gravity HW+pumped CH system as there will be a few pipework alterations to be done and a fair bit of labour to be done on top of the materials.

 

[onlyfitidealboilers]

nothing wrong with ideal boilers, in the main its how they are installed.

 

[Agile]

Have you had a quote from DRL Gas?

Tony

 

[waveneygnome]

Thanks Tony, no I hadn't tried DRL gas. They are approx 30 miles away/50 min drive.

Can you vouch for them?

 

[ianniann]

Anything but a combi (future proofing)

I wonder what future proofing you're thinking of? Perhaps your mum is planning another family? Get her what she wants, for god sake. If she is attached to the idea of a cylinder then do that. If she likes the idea of a combi then get that. One person, big house, ideal for a combi. If you've got plans for a second bathroom when you move into the attic then worry about future-proofing, otherwise let the big family that you sell to worry about it.

If BG quote you more or less the same price as an independent then it seems like a no-brainer to me. Their prices are about what I'd expect, the others much higher. I guess times are busy and the locals don't feel the need to be competitive. Just make sure they tell you what boiler you'll get. BG seem to be squeezing down their prices by supplying cheapo boilers. And I guess if they refuse to won't fit it somewhere acceptable to your mother then that would be a problem ... Life's never simple is, it?

 

[Agile]

Thanks Tony, no I hadn't tried DRL gas. They are approx 30 miles away/50 min drive.

Can you vouch for them?

I have never seen their work but would expect they are pretty good even if not the cheapest.

No harm in calling and getting an idea on the phone.

Its not ususual for people to go 100 miles to install boilers. People from Bournemouth even come to London to repair boilers!

Tony

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

£2,000000 for me to do it, but I do promise to piiss in the tanks which is normally an extra