New bottom entry fill valve, very slow fill

[thetcutkid]

Hi,

I’ve fitted a new flush valve and bottom entry fill valve to our toilet cistern this week and now the cistern is taking over 15 mins to fill up after a full flush.

We originally had the old style ball valve but when I asked my local plumbing shop for one of these, they said that due to limited space in most cisterns, they now fit bottom entry valves - the one they sold me is a Mark Vitow ‘Flush Daddy’.

Since refitting the cistern, it’s taking a ridiculously long time to fill and despite checking/changing several things I’m at a loss to know what to try next.

There’s a flexi hose between the copper pipe coming out of the floor boards and the bottom of the cistern and although I don’t have a pressure gauge, if I unscrew the cistern end of the hose, hold it over a bucket and open the isolator valve, there's a very strong flow of water (the cistern is gravity fed from the cold water tank in the loft). The info that came with the valve says it can operate between 0.13 - 16 bar.

When I initially came to reconnect the original flexi hose to the new fill valve, the nut on the cistern end of the hose didn’t turn independently of the hose itself (it’s very old) so as I turned the nut, part of the hose twisted and distorted. When I then opened the isolator valve and I saw how slow the refill was, I thought that the distortion in the hose was restricting the water flow so I’ve now installed a brand new flexi hose but it’s made no difference whatsoever.

I’ve checked (and now removed) the filter in the threaded end of the fill valve, this has made no difference either.

Additionally, despite following the very basic instructions that came with the fill valve regarding setting the water height at which you want the valve to shut off - it isn’t shutting off.

I’ve googled this particular brand of fill valve and can find virtually nothing about it, all I can find is talk about the Fluidmaster Pro or Torbeck fill valves, so have I bought a pup ?

Is there anything else I could check or try in order to try and speed up the refill ?

Many thanks for any help.

Nick

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[seco services]

You say you have checked the flow from the new flexi and it's ok ?
Did you fit any restrictors in the end of the fill valve that came with it ?

 

[mickyg]

take it back and get a fluidmaster, never heard of it, but sounds faulty

 

[thetcutkid]

Many thanks for the quick responses.

I haven't repeated the same test with the bucket on the new flexi hose, I just assumed it would be the same but I guess it is something I can double check.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by restrictors but there was nothing else in the pack, just the conicle washer for inside the cistern and a plastic washer and brass nut for the outside.

 

[Charnwood]

never heard of it, but sounds faulty

Mark Vitow is an online seller, not a manufacturer.
'Flush Daddy' is probably some generic piece of pony and trap from China.

take it back and get a fluidmaster

Agreed.

 

[oph]

And pref the one with the brass thread too

 

[thetcutkid]

Thanks for all your replies, much appreciated.

Stopped by another plumbers merchants this morning as I've seen the 'Flush Daddy' valves in there before, thought I'd pick their brains as to whether they can only be used with a mains fed cistern and they didn't really know, they said they'd be happy to call Mark Vitow tomorrow and find out but I can do that myself if need be.

Whilst I was there I had a look at the Fluidmaster bottom entry valves they had on the shelf and I was a bit confused by the pricing vs the blurb on the box.

The 'Pro' range with the black writing on the box which says 'for installation by a professional plumber only' (why?) doesn't have a brass tail on it, the 'non-Pro' range in the green box does have a brass tail and is about £5 more expensive - I'd have thought that the pro range would've been the one with the brass tail....weird !!?

 

[Charnwood]

The 'Pro' range with the black writing on the box which says 'for installation by a professional plumber only' (why?) doesn't have a brass tail on it, the 'non-Pro' range in the green box does have a brass tail and is about £5 more expensive - I'd have thought that the pro range would've been the one with the brass tail....weird !!?

Bottom entry PRO45 has a brass tail. The only non PRO range Fluidmaster inlet valves to have brass tails are 3/8".

'for installation by a professional plumber only' (why?)

Why not?

 

[thetcutkid]

I wasn't trying to be cheeky, I meant 'why' as in do they suggest professional installation only as these valves are more complicated and difficult to fit

Thanks for the clarification on the brass thread/model, I note that Scewfix have the PRO45B at £12.99 which seems a pretty good price when compared to other prices online.

 

[spareshunter]

Take it back not fit for purpose. I take the B things out that includes any other make especially Torbeck they don't dribble when they go wrong they **** out full bore for no reason. Siamp have been discontinued at Tool Station had to many returned they now stock a look-a-like Fluid Master, watch this space. The list goes on.

Plus if the FM does go wrong and they do, they are easy to repair / replace without draining the cistern to fit a new one. Just pull it out replace or repair no fiddling in the cistern and loosing bits.

Pucker valve: one valve does all now low pressure - high pressure, didn't used to, but they got over that problem. Adjustable height to fit 99.9% of cisterns.

I keep 4 on van. 1 x 1/2in Bottom fee + 1/2in side feed. 1 x 3/8 bottom and side feed. Yep even original 3/8 in Rocas go out the window.

Reason to be installed by a competent trade person, so we can charge more, silly question.

Best of luck.

Best buy some shares now.

 

[thetcutkid]

Picked up the Fluidmaster Pro45B this afternoon and I've just finished installing it - works perfectly, 2 mins for a 6ltr fill. The most fiddly part of the install was trying to get the cap off the top to do the recommended flush through prior to final install.

One thing I will say is that the valve I took back had an excellent conicle sealing washer - the Fluidmaster doesn't have this, the washer is slightly shaped but no where near as much as the other one. Not sure if you can buy those washers separately but I'll keep an eye on it and if there is a problem I'll swap them over.

Many thanks for all your input - it was much appreciated.

Cheers,

Nick

 

[Charnwood]

Not sure if you can buy those washers separately but I'll keep an eye on it and if there is a problem I'll swap them over.

The washers are available as a spare.

The flush is only really necessary on new installs, not replacements, as the pipework will be flushed thoroughly already.

 

[thetcutkid]

Ok so I get up this morning and think that I better just check that there had been no leaks overnight and I find a small drop of water on the lino, about the size of a 1p piece...grrr. After investigating further, I think there is very slow seepage around the plastic back nut on the bottom of the Fluidmaster.

The install instructions were at pains to stress that you should not overtighten this back nut so I did it up as hard as I could by hand (wearing gloves to get a really firm grip) and then I put a further 1/8 turn on it with a pair of pump pliers. D'you think I could put a further 1/4 turn on it without over stressing or cracking anything or should I start looking for one of those tapered rubber sealing washers to go on the brass tail on the inside of the cistern ?

 

[spareshunter]

One thing you must do without fail. Anything replaced inside of cistern bottoms must be TOTALLY dry. mop up with kitchen roll. I you do it again make sure all faces inc washer are drrrrry. AND NO PLUMBERS GUNGE.

I would give a bit more tightening, plumbers always wish small leaks away a little tighten, rub with dry finger etc. before taking the bugger out. One of those things.

 

[mysteryman]

I prefer to flush the cold pipe through on a new valve installation. Debris can come in with mains water at any time. I know this one is tank fed, but it can still happen.