New Cistern on Close Coupled Toilet Leaking - Bolts?

[Fenlander]

I fitted a new Bathstore "Mytime" close coupled toilet in the cloakroom yesterday. Despite doing it all by the book twice it still leaks from the cistern... about an eggcup full an hour.

It leaks when tested with water poured into the cistern before the supply is connected. It does not leak/leak more when flushed. I have taken the cistern off and it is drip free when filled with water and tested off the pan.

So my logic says when its fitted to the pan for some reason the cisten bolts aren't sealing. I've tried with them nipped up softly right through to using grips firmly and the leak is still there.

The bolts are nylon and the seals inside the cistern are the cone type fitted the right way up.

The cistern is able to seat onto the pan without interference from the wall.

So far I haven't tried any extra sealent as surely it shouldn't be needed.

Bathstore advise supplying some new bolts and cone washers first and then changing the ceramics if it still leaks. That's OK as far as it goes but a lot of trouble so any ideas or tips much appreciated.... like are there any better bolts/seals sold??

http://www.bathstore.com/_applicati...-coupled-wc-with-wrapover-seat-1467.html?pg=0

 

[seco services]

have you got nuts and washer that fit on before it go's through the pan
then another washer/wingnut ?

 

[Fenlander]

No... and I can see that makes it harder. The bolts go through the cistern with the cone washer inside and then straight through the pan with the ruber washer and plastic nut underneath.

So there is no direct clamped sandwich of seals on either side of the cistern.

 

[seco services]

so your more lliable to crack the pan flange before you get the cone tight in the hole.

i would fit a descent set of cicstern bolts.
that can be tightened before they go through the pan.

 

[Fenlander]

That's an interesting idea because as I said when I'd tested the cistern off the pan with the bolts temp clamped as in your method there was no leak... it's just when it is asked to clamp the whole cistern/pan sandwich it leaks.

Are these bolt/seal sets sold in plumbers merchants and are any particular seal types that work best... cone/flat rubber etc??

On my toilet there is very little space for the extra interim nut if it was a chunky nylon one but room enough for the small steel one as in your image.

Are the steel bolt sets better than nylon?

 

[seco services]

Are these bolt/seal sets sold in plumbers merchants and are any particular seal types that work best... cone/flat rubber etc??

they can be a pain to get.
whats the hole like in the cistern is it quite a deep cone hole etc.
have you any pics ?
but someone on here found them cheap somewhere.

On my toilet there is very little space for the extra interim nut if it was a chunky nylon one but room enough for the small steel one as in your image.

providing the hole in the pans a descent size the nut should sit in it.

Are the steel bolt sets better than nylon?

as you know with nylon to much torque and you strip the threads etc.

what i have done before when a seal is passing water in the cistern is fill the hole with a clear silicone then fit the bolts etc
the water may pass the seal but not the silicone.

i'll have a look see if i can find the post fro the bolts.

http://www.toiletspares.co.uk/prod_desc_ts098.html?sno=298

 

[kirkgas]

is it possible the wc bowl is too near the wall causing strain on the bolts when they are fitted through the pan

 

[marcr]

I always silicone the thread of the bolt otherwise I find the water follows it in a helter skelter type way. So I get the bolt, apply silicone to the first inch of thread (at the head end ), rub it into the thread then add flat washer, quick smear between thread and under flat washer and add the cone washer.

Remove excess silicone when using rubber washers as it makes them slip out of place.

 

[neds]

I had exactly the same problem with one fitted took it apart numerous times. I used nuts on both side of the cisterns also used some LSX on the threaded bar. No leaks.

 

[Fenlander]

Thanks Kirkgas but the cistern is free to settle/tighten as it wants just a few mm away from the wall.

Here is the toilet...

This is the bottom of the cistern with the supplied bolts...

And here is the pan where the cistern fits... note the very shallow space available for any extra nuts on the bottom of the cistern.

I took it all apart today (when I took the photos) and thought I could see some misalignment in the cistern/pan holes which might pull the bolts off line and spoil the cone's seal. Sorted that, bolted up and it held dry for ten mins... and then started to drip again

I'm off to get a proper steel bolt kit tomorrow... luckily we are only ten mins from a city so loads of plumbing places & I'm sure somewhere will have one.

 

[seco services]

trouble with that idea i find it don't leak round the cone/cistern it leaks
between the white head of the fitting and the black cone and down the thread as said earlier.

 

[Fenlander]

Actually they have tried with these nylon bolts (despite the fact they leak ) as the first part of the bolt under the head where the conical washer is has been left plain not threaded. So in theory the more you pull them down the tighter the cone should be squashed between shaft, head and cistern hole.

 

[seco services]

sounds good but never works.

i prefer the old cisterns with the plate underneath.
don't get all that agro.

 

[Fenlander]

Yes quite... the wc I'm replacing is a high level cistern type with flush pipe and at 55yrs old it wasn't leaking!

 

[Fenlander]

An update that might help someone in the future.... sorry it's long but the detail needs explaining....

Bathstore supplied replacement cistern bolts (exactly the same type as old ones) and these leaked too.

I went to town and bought the type of bolt set that seals the cistern first (as shown by seco) and then bolts it down to the pan with a second wing nut (these came from B&Q, were well made with good seals). I filled the cistern with water and left testing off the pan for 12hrs and not a drop leaked from anywhere.... but it still leaked as soon as I fitted to the pan! I also noticed when it leaked there was also a dribble inside the pan.

At least with the B&Q bolt type every time you remove the cistern the last of the water didn't leak out as it does with the original through bolts.

What I eventually realised was that the clearance in the ceramics for the spigot bit of the flush valve that sticks out below the cistern was too small and as soon as you pulled the cistern onto the pan the flush valve was pushed upwards distorting its inside seal enough to leak. This was made worse as the big rubber flush valve seal wasn't the usual donut but a stepped design that added upward pressure to the flush valve as you tightened the cistern nuts (see pic in earlier post).

Back to B&Q and bought a standard sponge donut seal that sealed between the cistern and pan without pressing on the flush valve spigot. Result... first time with no leaks from the cistern area

But now that was dry a few hours later I noticed there was a small leak after flushing from where the pan spigot went into the P waste adaptor (I'm replacing an old cloakroom toilet with a waste pipe in the floor).

So hauled it all out again to see when looked at critically the pan spigot was not very round and had some rough dimples where the seal went. Also the B&Q P waste adaptor had a hard seal which didn't adapt well to the irregular pan spigot.

So hunted round and from Wolseley bought the P adaptor with a tight but flexible seal, filed off the worse of the rough dimples, fitted it all back and not a spot of a leak. It's now been fine for 48hrs so that's it cured as far as I'm concerned and I'll continue with the interrupted room renovations.

Not happy that the poor tolerance/quality ceramics on this WC from Bathstore has caused so much hassle and lost time... if it had been a £59 Toilet to go I'd perhaps have thought I got what I deserved but almost £200 should have bought a decent one.

Cheers