New light fitting annoyance

[DarkMist]

I recently removed a light from my living room and its on a loop system...first i need to locate the switch wire so thats covered...but what next....there are 4 wires to connect to and the light im replacing has 3 wires (3 light set up) i understand i need to connect all live wires from existing wires for it to flow but how do i connect the 3 live from my light fitting? (im using a small 6 hole junction box to connect wires) and also the same for the 3 neutral and the 3 neutral from the fitting? its a complete nightmare

 

[il78]

3x brown on fitting to switch wire (black / red sleeve usually)
3x blue on fitting to all blacks (neutrals)
3x reds (loop lives) together in a connector block
earths connected together and fixed onto fitting (metal)

 

[coal8210]

il78,


i have a similar problem to DarkMist.

i need to wire the kitchen light. it also has 3 cables, each with 3 wires for the live, neutral and earth.

the cables is shared with the living room.

i have tried countless times with different combinations but without success. sometimes the living room light works fine but the kitchen light is on permanently and other times the kitchen would light and the lounge would not and vica versa, nightmare!

which connections and in what order should i wired the wires in order for the kitchen light to work separately from the living room even though they shared the same cables.

many thanks in advance

 

[il78]

Your three cables are :

Loop In
Loop Out
Switch Wire

You need to find out which one is you switch wire first.

Then red from switch wire to reds from other cables.(these get connected into a connector block and not connected to the fitting)
Black from switch wire to brown of light fitting (this is your switch live, mark it with some red tape)
Blacks from 2 other cables to blue of light fitting (neutrals)
Earths connected to earths

Let us know how you get on. make sure the power is off

 

[coal8210]

il78,

thanks Ian for replying so quickly. i will definitely give it a try tomorrow.

when u say connect the 3 red wires together into the connecter block, do u mean altogether in one block or separately, each wire in 1 block.

thanks again

 

[breezer]

he means all 3 wires in same terminal (not one in each)

 

[coal8210]

thanks alot breezer.

you too Ian.

 

[coal8210]

il78,

i have tried what u mentioned earlier.

the kitchen light works fine now however when the lounge lights are turned on, they are dimmed and not give the normal amount of light. the kitchen light also goes dim too.

i have 2 lights with a 2 gang switch in the lounge, if i turn 1 light off in the lounge then the other light works normally and vica versa. so it works fine if only 1 light is turned on at any 1 time in the lounge.

do u have any suggestions on this problem?

 

[breezer]

you could always learn to live with just one light

correct me if i am wrong but the only light you have changed it the one in the kitchen?

you will have to leave it untill daylight, but one of the blacks you have connected is not what it appears to be,

the reds must be ok since the light works, and they are all connected to each other in the same terminal.
you havent connected the light to the 3 reds have you? (just a thought)

it appears you have connected the lights to the wrong black wire

i take it you know which black is deffinently the switch wire this should be connected to the 3 browns,

the 3 blues should be connected to the 2 blacks you have left, but these two blacks should ALSO be in the same terminal as each other (no reds, just 2 blcks in one side of your choc bloc and 3 blues in the other

 

[coal8210]

breezer, il78,

live with 1 light, maybe i can use some candles as well,

yes, the only light i am changing is the kitchen. from a ceiling rose to a halogen spotlight.

i connected the 3 reds into a connector block. i checked to find which red wire is live, there is only 1 with the other 2 must be the loop in/out.

the live black into the live fitting bracket, the other 2 blacks into the neutral fitting bracket and the 3 earth into the earth fitting bracket.

should i try the other 2 black wires individually and see if that works?

why does the lights goes dim by the way?

 

[coal8210]

breezer, il78

when i first opened the ceiling rose in the kitchen the 3 cables with the wires were wired like this,

3 earth wires together,

3 blacks together

1 red single wire

and the other 2 reds were in a connector block.

i would have just wired to the halogen spotlight but i was unsure, and my dad decided to have a go and now i'm in the mess that i am trying to fixed with your help.

 

[breezer]

how did you find which is the live?

(the other two are feed to switch and feed to next light)
what you have said sounds ok, but you may have a bad connection in the blacks, are both stripped and connected together?

your lights dim because you are connecting the other light in series with your kitchen light, not in paralell as it should be.

a bit like saying i have 1 orange but two people want it , so the only fair way is half each, but the best way would be to get another orange then they can have one each, not half

 

[coal8210]

breezer,

thanks for that explanation. seems clear now.

all the blacks have been stripped at the tips and not all the way.

i use a screwdriver that lights up if there is a current in the wire for the red wires.

is that the right way?

 

[breezer]

its not the best since they can give "false readings"

i was just re reading one post you made regarding where the cables were before you (or your dad) touched it, it doesnt read right



please read through several times, make sure you understand what you have to do before you actually do anything else

this is going to be a lot of hassle and grief but here goes.*

you will need to take down the light, separate all the cables into pairs (i mean one red and one black from each but the same cable, but for your sake don't have them touching)

find out which RED is the live
mark this cable as "in" (haven't got a continuity meter or can you borrow one (makes life easier)

now dissconect the switch for this light at the switch (take both wires out)

connect a red to the red and a black to the black
(that is connect the red and black respectivly to the cable you now know is the "in" cable, leave the other cable alone.)

is the red at the switch now live?

if answer is YES mark cable at rose with "switch" if NO mark the cable at rose as "out" (that is the cable you just connected to the "in" cable

the third cable at the switch is now the one you didnt label the 2nd cable as. (with me so far) so if the 2nd cable is called "switch" the 3rd cable must be "out" or vice versa

you now have 3 cables, one called in, one called, out and one called switch

connect all the reds into one terminal

connect the "in" and "out" blacks to another terminal (this will leave you with one single black and no reds, as they are in one connection already)

now connect your light fitting blues to the 2 blacks

now connect your light fitting browns to the single black

all is now up and working


* very important

as you have not got a continuity meter, while you are "testing" ALL the wires not being used should be in separate connector block (one for each wire.

you should also switch the mains completely off before and after each "testing" and again while you are removing the switch / putting it back, and likewise for the light fitting.

Also be careful when putting things back that NO wires get caught by anything, particulaly the screws that hold the switch in position, and also the light fitting itself.

I have not until now mentioned the earths as they stay where they are

i can take no responsability for your error

 

[ban-all-sheds]

This might help explain what you should end up with:

This is what you'll have after you've done Breezers stuff about separating out all the cables:

If you go here http://www.diydick.com/Electrics/electrical-content-pages/lighting-circuits.htm you'll find detailed step-by-step instructions to get you from start to finish.