New lowered ceiling and plasterboard over existing walls

[frales]

Hi

I am in the process of finishing a botched job by "professional builders". I am going to lower the ceiling in my old kitchen and cover over the old artexed walls with plasterboard but I can't decide whether to do the ceiling first or the walls. Plasterbord is 2400mm high and my new ceiling would be 2350mm. This suggests do the walls first but then would I be able to batten on to new plasterboards or will they crush, warp etc?

Any help appreciated.

 

[flexcrend]

do the ceiling first

 

[Richard C]

I’d do the ceiling first as stated but I assume you’re aware it’s perfectly feasible to plaster directly over the old Artex! How are you proposing the fix the PB to the walls? What construction are the existing walls? & what’s the room used for?

Can I also ask why you’re lowering the ceiling? Most problems can be fixed without battening down & fixing new boards. Fixing battens into just PB for the new ceiling is not a good idea; you need to fix through the PB into what ever is behind, depending on what the walls are made of.

 

[trowelmonkey1]

yup ceiling first!

then cut the wall board down, make sure you put some offcuts under the wall boards when fixing so that they end up 10 or so mm off the floor, standard practice so that boards don't suck up any water etc from the floor.

take the spacers out obviously once the boards have been fixed, skirting will cover the gaps.

 

[frales]

Hi

Thanks for all replies.

I am lowering the ceiling to the same height as the two new rooms in the extension and also to lose an unsightly beam.

This is my old kitchen and the whole room is very heavily artexed with a real heavy pattern. There are also bits that need done as there is a new door surround etc. I was thinking of trenching the old plaster, fitting battens in the trenches directly on to the brickwork below. This way I am only losing the thickness of the plaster board. The room is now going to be used as a sort of cloakroom with fitted wardrobes.

Another point.

There are several electrical sockets which will not be needed now. How would I terminate them without removing all the cabling?

 

[dextrous]

First - regarding cables, are these still live? If so, I'd recommend terminating or joining them below the floorboards to remove the chance of an erroneous nail at some later date.

If you are overboarding onto the artex, why bother with the battens? It's far easier to use plasterboard adhesive to dot and dab them into place, and a lot quicker too.

 

[Richard C]

No need to trench & fit battens, just dot & dab the board to the walls as Dextrios suggests.

Re the redundant sockets/cabling; depending on how they are wired, the sockets are probably part of an active ring main so do not remove the cabling & there is a chance that other sockets may crease to function. I'd either leave them in place or terminate the cables inside the box & fit a cover plates; do not bury them in the wall. Wiring regulations require screw terminal boxes must also be easily accesible unles the cables are permanetly joined (crimped or soldered); screw terminal boxes located under the floorborads is not regarded as accessible.

 

[frales]

Hi

Thanks agin for replies.

The walls in the old kitchen are really uneven. Some have no plaster and are bare brick. This means that the wall thickness differs by an inch in places. I thought if I could fix battens to the brickwork I could then square everything up nicely as all the battens would be uniform and screwed to the brick. I have never tried dot and dab or dab and dot and wonder if this would work in getting the walls square.

As for the cables does this mean that the new walls would have to have all these cover plates on them? One would be in a cupboard and so doesn't really matter but the rest would be visible.

 

[dextrous]

Hi

Thanks agin for replies.

The walls in the old kitchen are really uneven. Some have no plaster and are bare brick. This means that the wall thickness differs by an inch in places. I thought if I could fix battens to the brickwork I could then square everything up nicely as all the battens would be uniform and screwed to the brick. I have never tried dot and dab or dab and dot and wonder if this would work in getting the walls square.

As for the cables does this mean that the new walls would have to have all these cover plates on them? One would be in a cupboard and so doesn't really matter but the rest would be visible.

Dot and dab will be able to take varying subsurface into account to quite a large extent.

As for the cabling - it may well be worth your while getting an electrician in to deal with these and have them removed from the walls as he sees fit. Shouldn't cost more than £100 and probably less for half a day's work, especially if you get floorboards loosened for access for him.

 

[Richard C]

As Dex says, dot & dab will take up a certain amount of unevenness & it may be a question of using a bit of both if the wall is that bad.

As for the cables does this mean that the new walls would have to have all these cover plates on them? One would be in a cupboard and so doesn't really matter but the rest would be visible.

You cannot bury cables joined by screw terminal blocks into the wall, they must be accessible; I suggested cover plates for 2 reasons;
1. To allow the necessary access that has to be provided with screw terminals
2. To give a visible indication that there are live cables buried in the wall;

Again as Dex says; if you want to loose the boxes completely, the only way to do it is provide a permanent join in the cables that complies with the regulations & either loose them under the floor or within the ceiling & it maybe best if you got a spark in to do that.

 

[dextrous]

Richard, you're doing a lot of agreeing with me of late. I'd worry about this if I were you, 'cos your standards must be slipping

 

[frales]

Hi

I am sorry I never got back to say thanks for all your suggestions.

Here is what I did.

I started putting battens on for the lowered ceiling on the old plaster. The old plaster started to crumble and the frame for the ceiling did not feel secure. I therefore took it down, and tried to channel the plaster. The plaster was so old and dry that when I was channelling, yards of the stuff was falling off the walls. I therefore bit the bullet and took all the old plaster in the room off, right back to the bare brick.

I then got my spark, who is a friends son to sort out the electrics I didn't need. I then battened all the walls, lowered the ceiling, and put plasterboard up. I then papered the ceiling and walls and it is looking great.

I am now in the process of building a wardrobe and cupboard which will be floor to ceiling. How hard is it to get the right Conti board?? I have eventually sourced it and hopefully will be getting this tomorrow.

I hope to have the old kitchen finished before Christmas.

This job has been going on since 2007 and the delay has been a) My cowboy builders, b) I am a DIYer and have to take things slowly and lastly c) I only get the chance to work on this at the weekends.

I was featured on a BBC1 programme about the Cowboy Builders and the BBC workmen sorted out some problems that I was not even aware of. So, if I ever use a builder again I will make sure he is accredited, insured and that there is a written and binding contract and penalties. Or I'll just get a sawn off and deal with the cowboys at Dodge.

Thanks again for all the tips and advice.