New Year, New Bathroom

[alp078]

Hi everyone

I have jumped in with both feet to a bathroom refit and redocoration starting now. We moved into the house about 18 months ago (1910 end of terrace, was three beds, now two, more on that later) and this is pretty much the last major job we have to undertake.

I spent a good bit of time over the last day or so reading around the forum here and other sites as well as with my head stuck in various DIY books but thought that the best way to inform myself and do some real learning would be to chart the project on here and (hopefully) get lots of lovely (read useful)) feedback from those in the know... thats you i hope

I mentioned that the house used to be a three-bed, well, the previous owner knocked through what was a very small cot room into the bathroom to allow room to tuck a shower behind the door. Consequently, yes we have a bigger bathroom, but we have a rather awkward shaped room. We also have a bit of work to do in undoing some poor workmanship when the conversion took place, notably (though probably more to the expert eye) a wonky bit of stud work around the door. Nothing to major to rectify.

We'll be replacing the entire suite, though not changing the location of bath, shower, toilet or sink. I'll be opting for a marginally slimmer shower tray to give better door clearance, and will be building a unit to run the length of the wall where the sink is now to house the new one and to give a bit of storage for all my fiance's toiletries A pump will need to be installed for the shower as the pressure currently, well, before i took the shower apart, was appalling. the floorboards will be stripped back and restored, either to be painted or varnished (still nailing down colour schemes) and the walls will in the main part be tiled floor to ceiling with a couple (likely the window walls) tiled halfway and painted above (as cosmetic preference). I'll also be taking out the awful deep and odd sized window surrounds botched together on the three small windows.

Soooo... small bathroom, big job, certainly feels it at the moment, hence the early post. Whilst i have kicked off with a bit of tile removal (we hadn't used the shower in ages it was that bad, so won't be missed) i am still doing a fair bit of planning and perhaps most importantly need to get my head around what to do when and in what order. On a crude level i envisage lots of stripping back and then making good before removal the old suite a bit at a time and bringing in the new. Oh, i wish it to be that simple, but even in my limited DIY experience things rarely are.

So folks, i ask you now to help me set off on the right path. If anyone could help me in understanding the best way to progress it would be most useful. Am i asking a lot? Quite possibly, so maybe someone just help me kick off... please?! My thinking is that i continue with tile removal, before making the walls good as needs be and then turning my attention to the floor (including getting the new shower tray in) as well as the new sink unit.... after that, bath, toilet and new tiles?

One immediate question, the shower as is, to carry on with its removal presumably i know to isolate the water somewhere (yes, i AM that much of a novice - but i learn quick ) and when replacing it should i get the new one up before or after re-tiling?

I look forward to any and all replies, even if just to give a bit of encouragement or a word or two of warning! My thanks in advance

Andrew

Oh.... photos....
now how do i do that....
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[markyb7]

Taking on a bathroom for the first time is a daunting task - especially when its your first one and you are doing your own house, presumably working full time AND having to live in the house at the same time... Living without a bath/basin is fine but living without a toilet for any length of time is tough - even for men !! Lol

One of the first things I will say... is that it will undoubtedly take you a lot longer than you think it should... so prepare yourself mentally for this now !!! When I did my first bathroom many years ago I estimated to my wife that it would take a bank holiday weekend and it took me about four months to complete and that was whilst holding down a full time job and working in the damn bathroom untill 1o/c every morning ! Preparing yourself for this frustration in advance will do wonders for your karma...

To take on a bathroom you really do need to be confident in basic plumbing and tiling. IMO Bathrooms are a LOT harder to do than kitchens. Dont take this the wrong way but from bitter experience I suggest you ensure that your insurance policy covers accidental damage !!!!! I would also advise that any electrics you are considering, such as extractor fans, lighting etc are handled by a qualified electrictian as my understanding of the legislation governing domestic installations "Part P" prohibts you from working on any electrics in bathrooms and kitchens - even in your own house. I think there was also a legislation change from yesterday (?) that says that any electrical equipment in a bathroom (including lights) needs to be RCD protected.

I now fit kitchens and bathrooms and do painting and decorating for a living and I have found that with two of us, an average complete ripout bathroom refit (as opposed to just swopping out sanitaryware) including all plumbing, tiling, decorating etc including subbing out the sparks - for a avg std toilet/shower over bath/basin setup takes about two weeks. Add in underfloor heating, shower pumps, 600mm square porcelain tiles, 3 baths arriving damaged on the trot with gouges in them - and it can stretch to many many weeks !!!!!!!

Im waffling now and almost forgot your original question was about the shower. No easy answer but yes you need to isolate it.. Where and how is one of those piece of string questions. Will depend on where bathroom is, what type of boiler youve got etc.. Assuming bathroom is upstairs nip up into loft and start tracing pipes.. hopefully you will find whoever installed shower will have left you some helpfully located isolating valves !! Useful tip - if there are gate valves on pipes, they can "let by", so dont turn off disconnect and walk away from these esp in the loft as they will drip !!

Re installing a pump - can be simple but also a minefield. Suggest you get a qualified plumber to have a look and he can advise you of what you can have based on system you have, conventional, combi, negative head etc etc. Last installation I went to couple had recently had a new boiler fitted but if they hadve had a combi system fitted at the same time they could have done away with a huge airing cupboard in their bathroom where the hot water tank was, that could have made a really nice seperate shower unit...

Realise this all sounds a bit negative and dont want you to lose heart before you have even started... Good luck but make sure you know what you are getting yourself into... and once you have done that enjoy the process.. It can be great great fun and having a smart new bathroom is a great joy !

 

[alp078]

Hi Marky, thank you for your reply

You are right, it is a daunting task and no doubt will take longer than i would wish. Just how long will obviously remain to be seen, but yes, i am working full time so this will largely be an evening and weekend project. However, i expect i will take a week off when it comes to actually removing and replacing the toilet, bath etc.

Fortunately I'm anticipating limited work on the electrics, particularly as we are quite happy with the spotlights we have in there at the moment.

We are toying with the idea of a combi boiler, as much as anything for the space saving reasons you mention. But am hesitant on the grounds of cost. Having looked around it would seem i should expect a minimum of £1,500 upwards and apart from the obvious win of having some added space find that there seem to be as many cons as there are pros to having one over the hot water tank as is. What are the thoughts of others? If it helps, as a reminder, we have a two bed end of terrace, three of living there and likely will find that we all make better use of the new shower than new bath. Also, cosmetically, we prefer the look of many of the mixer showers available over electric (Am i right in saying you cant run a mixer + pump off a combi?)

Anyway, pulled back the existing carpet last night to find half boards and half chipboard down on the floor, so will have to do some thinking about what we do there. Really like the idea of tiled floor, but cant get my head around the height of a nice new floor versus the height of the hallway outside. The inevitable slight step up just doesn't seem right. Is it acceptable? I mean does it look ok?

Will be having a plasterer and plumber come and take a look this weekend, so hopefully will have a bit more knowledge coming out of that and some ideas as to what i can do myself and what i will need to buy in labourwise. I am always dead keen to do as much as possible myself, not just for cost reasons, but for satisfaction too. But i realise that long term my enthusiasm should not scupper the reality of having a decent bathroom that stands the test of time

 

[Ady005]

All i'm going to say is 'Best of luck' because I'm at the same stage as you. I'm going to make sure everything is planned as muc as possible before I fully commence (have started ripping tiles off the wall - couldn't resist).

Has anyone used a PVC plasterers float?

 

[alp078]

All i'm going to say is 'Best of luck' because I'm at the same stage as you.

Cheers Ady and best of luck to you too! I'm sure planning, good planning, is the only way to go.

Some photos...

 

[wanabechippie]

Hey alp.

Welcome to the world of destroy it yourself!

Having been where you are, the best advice I can give is to prepare as much as you can before you take the leap into non-toilet world.

I got our bathroom from B&Q last year. Never fitted one before so I went over and over the installation instructions for the bath and toilet until I knew them blindfold. I also assembled the toilet cistern (plastic flushy gubbins + various washers) a few days before so I could make sure it didn't leak (sealed the rubber washers/gromets in with silicone for good measure + filled with water).

Did the same with the bath - attached plug hole, waste, over flow and taps. Didn't use sealant around the plug hole - as per the manufacturers instructions - water came ****ing out all around the darned thing when i filled it with water! Took it apart, dried it off and sealed everything with silicone. left it for a couple of days then re-filled bath with water out in my shed. Nae probs!

It may seem picky but IMO it's best to find out that your toilet doesn't work/leaks before you've gone and smashed the old one to bits.

When it came to swapping the old toilet for the new, I'd gone over the procedure that many times, it was actually a bit of an anti-climax when it was all done in 20mins! Found it helped to lubricate the male end of the pan connector/out-flow whatsit (sticky-outy bit a the back of the toilet) so that it could slide easily into the waste pipe connector. You may want to have a new connector ready as ours had gone a bit crumbly (mad dash to B&Q ensued at 10mins before closing to get new one! Would have meant a day 'sans-throne' otherwise!). was ony about £5.

When I put our new power shower in, I had to build a small stud partition at the end of the bath (no room at other end due to window). I ran the pipework first, left a hole for the pipe, tiled/grouted then mounted the shower. I got our tame sparkie into to run the leccy as I know nothing about that side of things.

Actual plumbing wise, as I moved the bath/sink/toilet a few inches from their origional placement, I used flexi tap connectors from the old pipes to the new taps. Also used one on the toilet cistern fill conector thingy. Saves buggering about with pipe benders/90deg compression fittings etc.. Shop around for them as their prices can vary hugely. Get yourself a for attatching them. Unless you've got pencil thin arms and 40 elbows, you'll have a job trying to do it with a regular spanner.

Oh, and don't forget [url=http://www.screwfix.com/prods/67670/Plumbing/Brassware/Isolating-Valve-15mm]isolating valves. Plonk them all over the shop. Means you can disconect things without knocking off the water to the whole house.

Anyway... bit of a ramble. Basically; get everything in place before you start. If you can still use the bathroom with no tiles on the walls - bosh them off. If you dont need the shower - oot with it. Clear as much work space as you can around the bath and toilet so that when it comes to it, it's just a case of out with the old and in with the new. Swapping my toilet and bath took a day and a half, start to finish. Was only without the toilet for 20mins tho. Finishing the whole room took about 2 weeks of evenings and weekends.

Remember the 7 P's:

Proper
Preparation and
Planning
Prevents
****
Poor
Performance.


All the best!

 

[alp078]

wanabechippie, hi

great advice re; the toilet cistern and bath, i like your thinking. To be honest, if i can get the new one in in 20 mins i'll be sighing relief rather than feeling anticlimax!!

Had two plumbers come round today to separately take a look and waiting for quotes now. All i want doing intially is readying the pipework for the new shower, before i fix up the walls, then for them to return to install new shower and pump. I'll put my hand to many things, but am happier leaving this one to the experts. Given that the bath, toilet and basin will be more or less staright swaps i'll take these on myself.

So, when not wandering around DIY stores and gawping at expensive suites in bath shops i managed to strip back some more plaster and ripped out the horrible plastic window surrounds. Double-edged sword mind you as it showed me just how bad the walls are (around the windows mainly) and the extra work i will need to do making good. Oh well, worth it in the end!

That's all for now...

Andrew

 

[mdbalson]

You may be able to fill up the holes around the windows with expanding foam, as this is what I used to fill up the big hole at the left side of the back door frame in the kitchen.

 

[alp078]

Thanks md, i'll keep that in mind.

I expect i would need to be careful not to use too much foam though, the plastic surround is pretty easily moved and i would not wish to exert too much pressure on it as it expands. That said, if it won't impact the integrity of the windows themselves i may remove these entirely as i would like to carry the walling tiling in on the sides, bottom and top.

Cheers
Andrew