Newel Post removal and replacement.

[J_N30]

I'm wondering if I can get some advise on the above.

I have a 1.7m straight run banister rail at the top of my stairs/landing which I'd like to replace. The top newel is puzzling me a bit though. It drops Into the kitchen so i was expecting to remove one long post but on closer inspection the post has been notched into and round the top stair so it's only secured by half a post thinckness. Post is 2.5inch square.

What's the best way to remove this and for refitting do I have the same as is in now and notch the post in half. This concerns me as I don't want it becoming weak.

Many thanks!

 

[Orbi1]

Try and stay away from removing this newel post. It most likely will drop into a room somewhere. It is notched around the double joists that make up the stair well, or the 3inch thick joists That are doubled up!
In most cases that newel is fitted when the stairs are put in place so its a total rip out to get the newel out im afraid. This is a mega job. It usually involves the string being morticed in there and / or treads being housed around it. Not one for the faint hearted and stay away is my advice. There should be no need for a newel swap. It may be possible to splice a new newel onto the old stub ( at least a 400 mm splice) above the floor level using bolts, dogs, cascamite wood glue and a lot of skill to get the joint perfect first.

Good luck !

 

[J_N30]

That's not good. The post currently in is square and only 2.5 inch I was looking to fit a turned post and I believe they are also bigger.

May have to get a carpenter in.

 

[dann09]

Well said orbit, definitely not a DIY job to remove the total newel. Some joiners would walk away because of the imponderables.

With respect robo, i dont quite get what's happened and what you want to accomplish.

Any possibility of pics, although i doubt that we could offer any better than orbit's suggestion.

 

[J_N30]

Nothing's happened I'd just like it replaced as its looking rather tatty, been knocked a few times. Only been in the house a couple of years and the previous owner removed all but the newel to get furnature up the stairs. His refitting was terrible, screwed through the banister rail into the spindles!

Seams it's going to be a total pig I may just fit new spindles and rail then gloss the whole lot... Although the mrs wants natural wood finish.

 

[dann09]

Round or square newels are from 3 1/2" to 4".

Getting rails to match your dimensions might be squeaky, and look a little odd.

To replace the rails and spindles is well within DIY range, but anything with the newel is for a chippy.

Perhaps call a chippy, be upfront with him or her, and ask them for a view?

 

[J_N30]

Round or square newels are from 3 1/2" to 4"

This again is a problem. Mine being 2.5" I can't even cut it and join a new one to it as the widths are different. The house was built mid 80's didn't think it'd be so difficult.

 

[J_N30]

This thread is exactly what I'm dealing with //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=147145

Weirdly the same layout too!

Looks like I can either cut flat at floor level and dowel joint or cut xxmm up and pack out with pine to get desired thickness.

 

[Orbi1]

Okay Robbo...
A newel that is only 2.5 inches square is rare and weak!.. even the old timers realized that newels were an important part of health and safety back then. Newels are not for good looks they do a very important job. They stop you from breaking your neck down the staircase.! If yours is 2.5 inches then you can keep it in place and " laminate" it by planting on 4x1. PAR 19mm x 94mm Lets do the math. so take 21/2 inches ...63 mm plus 2 thicknesses of the 4x1 (19mmx2) 38mm so 101 mm wide timber will be needed minimum. I suggest making it 110 mm max width. you will need to get 6x1 PAR and machine mitre it on a rip saw mitre the long edges to make a box. 4 @ 110mmx 19mm x Height? mitred long edges. Mitering hides the joints and looks more professional, to me its the best way and worth the extra effort in finding a joiners shop who will cut the mitres for you. You can of course just butt join the 4x1 PAR edges
The best way to construct this is to lay the mitred boards beside one another face up and take some masking tape and tape them along each joint length ways and then across ..turn them over and glue the mitres with PVA wood glue, wrap the pieces around the old newel( having removed the rails or bannister from the existing post!) and tape together securely. This way you dont need pins or see any fixings. You can do this "dry" before gluing to make sure of the fit etc. you may need to notch around the string or make other adjustments first. Remove the tape when dry. that way you get to keep the integrity of the existing newel AND make it look like a chunky modern one. Put on some beading or fancy decorative rope style moulding around it( using mitre mate) to enhance its features etc.
You can also when it is constructed drill some 7mm holes and foam fill the cavity for extra strength.! ( position the holes carefully and hide them with the beading) or dowel them.
This would be the best approach. Hope this helps

 

[Orbi1]

do NOT cut the newel at floor level!!!! Box it out as suggested above....
There are usually 2 newels on a landing.. one a full Newel and one a half Newel. the half newel is fitted against a wall and is cut at floor level, the full newel is crafted around the string ,treads,riser,or trimmers of the well and possibly show below on a lower ceiling somewhere ie in the hallway. or kitchen.
The bannister top rail is housed into the full newel and half newels. a space between each spindle is needed where a 100mm ball cannot fit through anywhere . This represents the smallest size of a childs head! some spindles have ornate designs which means that there may be bigger spaces between the spindles at different heights. I usually allow 65 mm between the square edges. and cut them from the same point on the spindles. Use a turned machined line reference on the spindle and use this same point to cut the tops and or bottoms of the spindles. This measuring point ensures that the spindle turnings are all equal in height. Ive seen many spindles that are one up and one down , they look horrendous. same applies to cutting down the stair rake. a point for bottoms is taken and cut to the angle cut all bottoms first, then take a top reference point and cut each to the same length( the top spindle and the bottom spindle in theory should be the same heights ! always check!

 

[foxhole]

You could drill out a 4" post to slot over the existing newel [trimmed to fit].

 

[J_N30]

Thanks for your replys. I totally understand the purpose of the banister. Apart from this newel the job is very straight forward being a straight level run. I'm most probably going to employ a carpenter to do the newel if not the whole job for me.

Thanks again.

 

[Orbi1]

yep thats the idea..... us good old chippies get all the tough jobs ! lol... when youre a chippie you need a brain that thinks latterly and has the ability to see things that are hidden to most. There is more than one way to catch a monkey in my trade.
Some jobs are best left to the pro s ... best of luck R