No BT Master Socket in 70's Bungalow

[bmouthboyo]

Hi Guys,

I am having issues with getting advertised internet speeds on my new Vodafone Broadband connection to a home I just moved into.

I was asked to connect the router to the 'master socket' which I assume mine is as its the first socket as you come in the bungalow and the other ones were connected via a extension from a 2 way spliter on the front.

When i opened it up however there was no master socket behind the cover:

I traced it back and the first thing the connection comes to when coming into my home by the front door is this ancient thing:

My question is do I need to fit a 'master socket' or is this only needed when connecting extra sockets (which we are not going to do)?

Is there anything I can do to imrpove the wiring?

 

[Handymanjo]

That is the master socket old style
Grey box is a junction box where line from outside comes in

 

[pete50]

Problem is that whilst that is the master socket there are far too many wires there for the phone's needs and one of them will be a bell wire. this is not needed these days and should be removed as it WILL introduce noise to your phone line. The other problem is that you do not have a test socket behind the cover of that box. The idea of a test socket is that you take the front cover off and then plug your router/test equipment into that socket. Everything from that test socket back outside is the responsibility of BT. So if a fault is found with the box cover removed the BT/Openreach sort it at their expense. If no fault is found then BT/Openreach will charge you stupid amounts to put it right because then the fault is on your premises and that is your responsibility. The other huge problem with not having a test socket is that if you ring your internet service provider and ask them why you have a poor broadband speed they will ask you to plug your router into the test socket. These people read from script and, mostly, do not have the faintest idea what they are doing. If you fail to follow their script, because you do not have a test socket, they will stop helping you. Ring BT or Openreach or whoever you have your line rental with and tell them you do not have a modern main telephone socket and ASK them how much it will cost to provide you with a modern box. The fact that you have all that rubbish there is, more than likely, contributing to your slow speed. Oh and internet service providers NEVER commit to telling you what speed you WILL get they only say what speed you MIGHT get. The difference between the two can be huge.

 

[Bodgeitandleggit]

This is the old type of master socket but looking at your extension the white cable i would say that is alarm wire and will be rubbish for your bb speed.. be adament with your service provider and tell them you req a master socket

 

[bmouthboyo]

Interesting.

I have just moved into the property and signed up with Vodafone Broadband for Internet and Line Rental. Should I tell them I have an old style master socket? If so will they then foot the cost to have it updated?

Alternatively can I not DIY it? Looks fairly straightforward if I have a guide for what wire goes where.

Here is a close look at the junction box, I see a few wires are not connected (Green and Black coming in, and Dark Brown going to my master socket)

Is this correct?

 

[pete50]

If the green and black are the incoming wires that is all you need. It does look like as if you have a couple of extensions there. Green and black are not the usual colours for incoming wires although the colours do vary. You could fit a master socket yourself BUT really the master socket is the property of Openreach and they should install it. Everything house side is yours and you can do whatever you like providing what you do does not compromise BT. I very much doubt that Vodaphone would foot the bill to replace the socket but it's worth a try. If you muck it up you could be liable for damages plus the cost of installing it properly. Open reach will charge you £180 to do the job. You will have to go via Vodaphone to make the arrangements but it will be an Openreach engineer that will come out and there lies your next problem. Actually getting Vodaphone to report it and get someone out to you. Hopefully they will be better than Sky in that respect.

 

[bmouthboyo]

If the green and black are the incoming wires that is all you need. It does look like as if you have a couple of extensions there. Green and black are not the usual colours for incoming wires although the colours do vary. You could fit a master socket yourself BUT really the master socket is the property of Openreach and they should install it. Everything house side is yours and you can do whatever you like providing what you do does not compromise BT. I very much doubt that Vodaphone would foot the bill to replace the socket but it's worth a try. If you muck it up you could be liable for damages plus the cost of installing it properly. Open reach will charge you £180 to do the job. You will have to go via Vodaphone to make the arrangements but it will be an Openreach engineer that will come out and there lies your next problem. Actually getting Vodaphone to report it and get someone out to you. Hopefully they will be better than Sky in that respect.

So to be clear there is no way to have this done without footing the bill myself? Or are BT openreach responsible to provide a working modern master socket and will do it at their cost?

 

[pete50]

Ring them and ask them. You might be lucky. I have got openreach to replace an old master socket such as yours at their expense but that was about ten yerars ago. As I say ring vodaphone and ask and ring BT and ask. They can only say no and might say yes.

 

[Doggit]

As Pete has already said, it's only the green and black wires that need dealing with, and if you managed to pick up a new split style master socket, then you could install it yourself. You have extensions, and that starts to complicate matters, as this drops the quality of the line the further you go from the master socket. You've got a single socket there, and that requires a filter, but the latest master sockets have one port for the router, and a seperate one for the phone line, and the filtering is done in the socket itself, so this keeps the line qulaity up.

So, do you need the extensions, or can you convert to a wireless phone system, and is there a power supply near the incoming master socket where you can plug the router into.

You can buy one of the slightly older style master sockets from maplin, and these allowyou to wire the extension sockets into the removable front section that then allows you to plug the router into the rear of it for testing purposes - this disable the extensions completely, but you never want to install a router anywhere other than the first socket that comes into the house.

Keep an eye out for an openreach van near you, and have a friendly chat with the guy.

 

[bmouthboyo]

As Pete has already said, it's only the green and black wires that need dealing with, and if you managed to pick up a new split style master socket, then you could install it yourself. You have extensions, and that starts to complicate matters, as this drops the quality of the line the further you go from the master socket. You've got a single socket there, and that requires a filter, but the latest master sockets have one port for the router, and a seperate one for the phone line, and the filtering is done in the socket itself, so this keeps the line qulaity up.

So, do you need the extensions, or can you convert to a wireless phone system, and is there a power supply near the incoming master socket where you can plug the router into.

You can buy one of the slightly older style master sockets from maplin, and these allowyou to wire the extension sockets into the removable front section that then allows you to plug the router into the rear of it for testing purposes - this disable the extensions completely, but you never want to install a router anywhere other than the first socket that comes into the house.

Keep an eye out for an openreach van near you, and have a friendly chat with the guy.

Thanks for the reply.

We do not really need any sockets other than one for the router as we use mobile nowadays, however when we go to resell in the future I think one socket would be expected despite wanting to locate the router into the attic as we live in a bungalow.

The cable from the junction box to the current first phone socket is only around a door frame next to it so a few meters at most. I was planning on running a cable up from this through the ceiling into the attic to the router, is this best achieved this way?

If a BT openreach engineer comes out will he re-lay the incoming cable due to age or more than likely just do as you said and wire up a new master socket?

 

[Doggit]

They have special cables nowadays that allow the master socket to be routed further into the house without any signal degradation. But I wouldn't fit the router into the loft, as it can get very cold up there in the winter. There a lot of repeaters that will extend the coverage of the signal if that's the issue. And I'd let the next owners worry about where they want extensions, just as you are having to deal with it now.

 

[Diver Fred]

First step is to pull the wires out of the IDC connectors that are in the white sheath in the first picture and see if that improves the speed.

Do you know if you underground or overhead supply into the house? I'm not sure on the incoming cable to the second picture as there could be another block terminal (junction box) on the outside. TBH it looks like the whole of the cabling has been altered/changed by a bodger...

(IDC = insulation displacement connector)

 

[bmouthboyo]

OK I think I will do this myself then.

To clarify:
- Do not need extension sockets so will remove the white wiring going from my current main socket
- What colours do what, and which do I disconnect / keep from my current BT junction box seem here:

The incoming line is on the left. The black and green were / are not connected to anything? Looks like I have orange, white and brown (earth?) connected at the block.

What numbers do they go to on my current socket I show at the top of the post?

Thanks for all this help averyone

 

[Diver Fred]

You don't need to disconnect anything in the Junction Box...
Left Hand side is incoming cabling from exchange. Starting at the top is Earth wire - goes to an external earth spike (copper clad steel rod) must not be used as a mains earth spike!
White and Orange pair is the connection to the exchange. The Green & Black pair is a spare pair or may have gone faulty in the past. Wire should always be in a (twisted) pair to balance line impedance.
Right hand side is the internal wiring to the old style master socket - Green is the earth extention - not needed. Blue and Orange is the pair carrying the signal from the exchange. They use IDC's No's 2 & 5. As the other cable is not to BT spec it is quite possible that is causing a loose connection (IDC should cause a 'cold weld' to be formed - if that is cracked then corrosion could set in).

As you have an earth connection in the Junction box the line was 'Shared Service' in the past - the earth was needed for ringing and calling for 'Dial Tone'.

As I intimated above it's an atrocious piece of wiring - I've never seen grey internal cable supplied and used by BT before.

 

[bmouthboyo]

You don't need to disconnect anything in the Junction Box...
Left Hand side is incoming cabling from exchange. Starting at the top is Earth wire - goes to an external earth spike (copper clad steel rod) must not be used as a mains earth spike!
White and Orange pair is the connection to the exchange. The Green & Black pair is a spare pair or may have gone faulty in the past. Wire should always be in a (twisted) pair to balance line impedance.
Right hand side is the internal wiring to the old style master socket - Green is the earth extention - not needed. Blue and Orange is the pair carrying the signal from the exchange. They use IDC's No's 2 & 5. As the other cable is not to BT spec it is quite possible that is causing a loose connection (IDC should cause a 'cold weld' to be formed - if that is cracked then corrosion could set in).

As you have an earth connection in the Junction box the line was 'Shared Service' in the past - the earth was needed for ringing and calling for 'Dial Tone'.

As I intimated above it's an atrocious piece of wiring - I've never seen grey internal cable supplied and used by BT before.

Thanks for clearing all that up. I will remove all the extension wiring from the master socket and leave only the blue and orange wires from the junction box as they are in IDC 2 and 5.

Out of interest what would be the best cable to replace the grey wiring coming out of the junction box. I know this is BT's property but just curious...if one was to replace DIY style.

Does anyone have a link to the current NTE5 socket BT installs? Preferably a NTE5B so I don't have an ugly filter hanging out the front.

Hopefully vodafone are now arranging an openreach engineer to come have a look, but should I start getting quotes of £140 etc I will just rewire it myself. Hopefully as it is the master socket and before they fix / replace it out of their own costs.