No record of change of use - what to do?

[tennisnut]

Hi all,

hoping someone will be able to help. I am in the process of buying a vacant town centre property, which a ca 1910 terraced dwelling. It was most recently used as an office, but now my solicitor tells me that no planning records exist for a change of use from the original use of residential dwelling to that of an office. The vendors (who used it as an office and are selling it as such) have not yet shed any light on this issue either.
I am hoping to live in the property, and assumed I'd have to apply to the Council for change of use, but if it was never officially changed from a house to an office in the first place, do I need permission to 'change it back' as it were at all?
Bit stumped really, so any thoughts on how to proceed would be very much appreciated.

Many thanks,
tennisnut

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

If planning permission has never been applied for to change its use from residential to office then its status remains as resdiential so no need to change it is there.

 

[tennisnut]

If planning permission has never been applied for to change its use from residential to office then its status remains as resdiential so no need to change it is there.

Thanks for the quick response. That's what I thought, too, but in the agent's blurb it said 'potential for uses other than office subject to planning permission'. Do they just put this on property adverts anyway without investigating the site history first?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

An estate agent will be led by what their client tells them they'll never do a search to find out.

 

[big-all]

i would also check that they are paying domestic rates for council tax/water/electric/gas

 

[tennisnut]

i would also check that they are paying domestic rates for council tax/water/electric/gas

Previous owners were registered for business rates, but I'm not sure how relevant that is in terms of planning?

I know of cases in the local area where people have lived in properties that were originally built with commercial planning consents, but managed to register and pay council tax for years without anybody realising the infringement. They have lived there so long it's now become a lawful use. If you can do this in one direction, I presume you can go the other way (i.e. council tax to business rates) without much questioning, too. The issue might be that different council departments such as revenue and planning don't actually talk to each other?

 

[RedHerring2]

This might be completely irrelevant and the experience was in France, not UK.
When I was about to start on the restoration of a house, in France, which had been used for agricultural use, I was told I'd need a "change of use application".
I pointed out that it had obviously been used for residential purposes before, so why did I need a change of use.
I was informed that it had most recently been used for agricultural use, so I'd need PP to change it back.
I thought I was being clever when I asked if the previous owner had permission to change it to agricultural use. I was told it wasn't necessary, but it was necessary to change it back to residential.

So, even though no PP may have been granted for commercial use, it might be now considered as such, and you might need PP to change it back. But, I have no experience of this in the UK.

 

[tennisnut]

This might be completely irrelevant and the experience was in France, not UK.
When I was about to start on the restoration of a house, in France, which had been used for agricultural use, I was told I'd need a "change of use application".
I pointed out that it had obviously been used for residential purposes before, so why did I need a change of use.
I was informed that it had most recently been used for agricultural use, so I'd need PP to change it back.
I thought I was being clever when I asked if the previous owner had permission to change it to agricultural use. I was told it wasn't necessary, but it was necessary to change it back to residential.

So, even though no PP may have been granted for commercial use, it might be now considered as such, and you might need PP to change it back. But, I have no experience of this in the UK.

thanks for sharing your experience. anyone have any practical experience in uk?

 

[^woody^]

There is a concept in planning of "established use", whereby if the property has been used for a given use for a certain time, then it is deemed to within that use class

This would normally work in your favour if wanting to continue the use [as an office]. However if you wanted to change it back it may be OK to just do it, but if anyone is concerned enough to complain - eg if a residential use in the middle of a row of shops or offices, then the council may have an issue. If it's amongst other residential use properties, then there would not normally be a problem

 

[tennisnut]

There is a concept in planning of "established use", whereby if the property has been used for a given use for a certain time, then it is deemed to within that use class

This would normally work in your favour if wanting to continue the use [as an office]. However if you wanted to change it back it may be OK to just do it, but if anyone is concerned enough to complain - eg if a residential use in the middle of a row of shops or offices, then the council may have an issue. If it's amongst other residential use properties, then there would not normally be a problem

Thanks Woody, that's very useful info. There's 5 dwellings in the terrace. The one adjacent to the one i'm hoping to purchase is a solicitor's office, the other 3 are residential. The immediate area is generally a mix of offices (estate agents, dentist etc) and residential, with a number of the commercial premises having been granted residential consent in recent years. So i'm not really too worried about being refused planning if i did apply, but it's more of a financial question. Including all contributions and fees it would cost arounf £3k to get the planning. The house needs tons of work before i could move in, so if the £3k could go towards the new roof, gas connection etc instead of into council coffers it would certainly help, but i don't want to fall foul of the rules or upset an potential new neighbours. I presume if i asked the council if i need permission they would say that i did regardless, why would they want to turn down the income?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Including all contributions and fees it would cost arounf £3k to get the planning.

£3K! What you getting for that £3K if you don't mind us asking?

 

[tennisnut]

Including all contributions and fees it would cost arounf £3k to get the planning.

£3K! What you getting for that £3K if you don't mind us asking?

Not much at all I'm afraid! The planning fee is around £350, and the rest is made up of contributions to two different pots of money payable in this Local Authority area for community facilities and children's play space that one has to pay for each 'new dwelling', which includes change of use of an existing non-residential building to residential. This contribution is non-negotiable, you either pay up or you don't get planning. If the house was in flood zone 2 or 3, an additional fee towards flood protection would also be payable (another £800 per house I think), luckily it's not.
So this money is just to get the permission, not me paying anyone to draw upfancy plans or fill in forms for me! I understand taking these kinds of sums + more off commercial developers, but as a single householder, they do sting a bit!

 

[big-all]

i would also check that they are paying domestic rates for council tax/water/electric/gas

Previous owners were registered for business rates, but I'm not sure how relevant that is in terms of planning?

I know of cases in the local area where people have lived in properties that were originally built with commercial planning consents, but managed to register and pay council tax for years without anybody realising the infringement. They have lived there so long it's now become a lawful use. If you can do this in one direction, I presume you can go the other way (i.e. council tax to business rates) without much questioning, too. The issue might be that different council departments such as revenue and planning don't actually talk to each other?

because it shows you what each thinks it is also the charge levels are different for commercial and domestic

if you are paying domestic and using as commercial you are cheating [stealing]and under paying if you want to use as commercial
on the same token if it domestic and you are paying commercial you are overpaying