Not another Party wall question.

[Faceache]

Hoping for a bit of advice regarding the following.

I have planning permission to extend my home and the single storey side extension will end up within 2m of the neighbours extended side elevation.

He's in the property game himself and has told me that the depth of his foundations on this flank are the standard 1m strip foundations that can be found the world over.
i'm unlikely to dig any deeper than this so at the risk of answering my own question is there any need to serve a Party Wall Notice?

He's indicated that he's not bothered about any formal documents regarding the PWA and would be happy to put that in writing but being a ocean going pessimist what would your advice be?

1 Just get on with the build and stop worrying.

Or

2 Serve a notice to cover your self.

I've been quoted around £1000 for the serving of paper work and a condition report on the neighbours property and I'm not looking to save on fees when they are necessary it's just that the whole procedure seems heavy handed and cumbersome when a word with the neighbour achieves the same thing.

Thanks in advance.

 

[cjard]

It's more to do with your relationship with him - noone has to serve a PWA, and they'll have to seek an injunction to stop you building if their extension starts cracking when you dig - court will grant the injunction to stop works if it deems the work falls within the scope of the PWA..

But PWA or no PWA, you're liable for damage to your neighbour's property so to this end, the PWA is just an expensive way of acknowledging this. If youre a decent sort, just agree with him that you'll make good any cracks that might appear in his plaster, arrange to go round to his house to take some pictures of his property before you start, and then get on and build it. If any cracks do appear in his paint, make em good and keep your neighbourly relationship.

Likely nothing will happen re the work, though if the diigger driver stuffs a bucket through his window, that's the drivers' liability insurance, not your fault..

 

[Faceache]

Thanks CJ.

That sounds like good advice. I've already indicated that if I damage his property I would be happy to pay for it to be rectified. Didn't think of photos though so I'll mention that to him.

The technologist who's drawing the plans up is fairly insistent that it needs to be done and I'm not sure how I'm going to convince him otherwise at the moment.

 

[tony1851]

The technologist who's drawing the plans up is fairly insistent that it needs to be done and I'm not sure how I'm going to convince him otherwise at the moment.

Tell him you don't want to spend another £1k for a report consisting of a pile of cut-and-paste rubbish from a surveyor, for no useful purpose whatsoever.

 

[Faceache]

Thanks Tony I'll have to develop a backbone regarding this. I suppose like many householders you go along with the advice your given without giving it a lot of thought or daring to challenge it but this particular procedure seems a bit OTT.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You can DIY a party wall notice at zero cost. You know that your neighbour isn't going to dissent.

So why not do it?

 

[tony1851]

You can DIY a party wall notice at zero cost. You know that your neighbour isn't going to dissent.

So why not do it?

The only problem with this approach is that in the notice, you have to specifically state whether or not you intend to carry out any measurees to protect the neighbour's foundation.

If you then write 'no measures will be taken to protect the adjoining foundation', it doesn't look good from the neighbour's perspective.

But this has to be added to make the notice valid under the PWA.

 

[wessex101]

Why is your "technologist" insistent that the Act applies?

Certainly from the adjoining properties foundation depth it seems fairly clear that it does not. Where is the new wall in relation to the boundary? Unless it is right against the boundary, again, the Act does not apply.

Why go through all the hassle of following the procedures under the Act if you don't have too?

 

[wessex101]

You can DIY a party wall notice at zero cost. You know that your neighbour isn't going to dissent.

So why not do it?

The only problem with this approach is that in the notice, you have to specifically state whether or not you intend to carry out any measurees to protect the neighbour's foundation.

If you then write 'no measures will be taken to protect the adjoining foundation', it doesn't look good from the neighbour's perspective.

But this has to be added to make the notice valid under the PWA.

I don't know what notice you've been using but that certainly is not required in the notice prescribed under the Act.

 

[tony1851]

I don't know what notice you've been using but that certainly is not required in the notice prescribed under the Act.

If you refer directly to the Act itself, it's in s.6 (5). (on page 6).

It's also in the official explanatory booklet on page 18, where it states,

inter alia;

"The notice must state whether you propose to strengthen or safeguard the foundations of the building...belonging to the adjoining owner"

The word 'must' is in bold in the booklet.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Surely if he knows what he's doing, he will know if he needs to strengthen or safeguard the foundations of the building belonging to the adjoining owner?

 

[wessex101]

Tony, of course you are quite correct.

Typing before I put my brain in gear.

As RM42 has stated that the adjoining foundations are 1m deep the 3 metre notice under Section 6 should not apply, so I had assumed it was a line of junction notice under section 1. On reflection you were probably right and I jumped to the wrong conclusion.

Sorry for muddying the water and doubting your post.

 

[tony1851]

@wessex - an easy one to miss!

I hate getting involved with PWA. Personally I think it's a money-making racket, while not absolving the householder of liability should things go wrong.

(If you ARE a PWA surveyor - nothing personal !!!!


)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

But the law says you must serve a notice - the only choice someone has to not get involved with the PWA is to choose to not do any work which is within its scope..

 

[tony1851]

But the law says you must serve a notice - the only choice someone has to not get involved with the PWA is to choose to not do any work which is within its scope..

You are - of course - perfectly correct, but it is not a criminal offence not to apply the Act.

The only sanction an agggrieved neighbour has is to apply for an injunction to stop the work while a surveyor is appointed.

The maximum penalty a builder can then be subject to are the legal costs, and the costs of delay, and it then really becomes a either a gamble or a stictly commercial decision as to whether or not to apply the Act.

In the real world outside barrister's chambers, there are Laws, and there are laws; some legislation is patently self-serving, and PWA is one such example.