Novice - What boiler

[qwerty10000]

Hi,

I am getting a new combi condensing boiler and as I know next to nothing about makes of boilers i'd like some help please.

I have a 3 bed semi with 1 bathroom. 8 radiators in total. From what i've seen on the net the WB junior 28i seems a good boiler and has been recommended by 2 of the 4 plummers i've had round. Although one of them said when the warranty runs out i'd need to take out a maintenance contract as they are hard to work on?? Maybe someone could confirm this

Also a Baxi and an Alpha has been mention (Not sure what models)

Any help or advice would be much appreicated

Many thanks

 

[EliteHeat]

What are you expecting from your new boiler and what is your budget?

 

[qwerty10000]

What are you expecting from your new boiler and what is your budget?

have around £1400 to spend inc fitting. if one of the makes is better than the other and more expensive i'd rather pay a bit more

i would like decent water pressure. basically just need it powerful enough to heat hot water and the radiators. at the min we have a thermo stat upstairs and downstairs (split into 2 different circuits) and the downstairs heating never works unless it's freezing cold. we currently have a back boiler and water tank in the attic

 

[compheat]

Iv'e been using the Worcester Green star 28i since they came out and had no problems. I'm not sure how diffecult they are to work on, they dont look that bad Has for the Alpha and the Baxi there both owned by Baxi and personally i dont like them. Has for getting a good boiler suppied and fitted for £1400 you'd be lucky. By the time the system is flushed out and a Part L up grade it will be more like £1900 and thats about mid range on pricing.

 

[qwerty10000]

Iv'e been using the Worcester Green star 28i since they came out and had no problems. I'm not sure how diffecult they are to work on, they dont look that bad Has for the Alpha and the Baxi there both owned by Baxi and personally i dont like them. Has for getting a good boiler suppied and fitted for £1400 you'd be lucky. By the time the system is flushed out and a Part L up grade it will be more like £1900 and thats about mid range on pricing.

one quote we had back was £2000 and that included fitting a new gas fire as well. that was for a WB 28i

Do you think that the WB are better made and more reliable or is there a different reason why you're not keen on them

thanks for ur input

 

[Paul Barker]

Location uk is a lot better than the clowns who put France but still not able to help you over pricing until I know where you live.

As for boiler type,

best available is Buderus a little over a grand to buy, or for almost half that I use the Poterton performa 30 he when people won't pay the extra.

I would strongly recommend a Magnaclean or Boilerbuddy.

If money is tight and you have a hire shop in the UK go and hire a powerflush and some FX2 and flush out your old system for yourself, because at the prices you are expecting to pay you ain't going to get a proper job.. and shouldn't expect to sue for it after having agreed a cheap price from someone who has no intention of staying longer than a day...

 

[qwerty10000]

Sorry location is Cumbria

How much would you typically charge for a powerflush (on average)

Do plumbers do this as standard when they put a new system in?

The 4 plumbers I've had round are all local and have been recommended by friends and 2 of them i've seen their work. £1400-£2000 in Cumbria does buy you a good central heating system and boiler. One of my friends had a WB 28i installed, 2 radiators changed and a powerflush for £1630

I've never heard of the Buderus or the Poterton performa 30 but I am a novice about boilers! I'll have a look into those 2 on the net

Every bit of info helps.

What are you're thoughts on the WB Junior 28i?

Thanks

 

[Paul Barker]

I expect wages are cheap in Cumbria so that helps you.

No most installers around here do not powerflush or ever have.

The guy who has done a fittiing with powerflush for a friend sounds like your man.

Nothing against WB, Boulter Buderus is the better part of same group (BBT).

My money would go an a 600 28c with modureg.

 

[Paul Barker]

Nearly forgot. Customer of mine was quoted £750 by BG for a powerflush. That's one end of the extreme, other end is I had an very poor old man customer, when I was removing a rad for him to decorate, I said you really do need a powerflush. How much is that going to cost me? After I resuscitated him (fortunately as well as being corgi registered I'm a registered nurse, which is a very good combination of skills) I said we'd do it one day when we have nothing else on for a hundred. Such a day hasn't yet arrived.

Whatever you decide dig £100 deeper for a magnaclean even if you order your own off the net and fit it yourself.

 

[qwerty10000]

i can do general DIY but haven't a clue when it comes to plumbing! I think i'll leave the cleaning of the sludge to you professionals!

 

[Paul Barker]

I wouldn't if I were you ,it's mostly labour intensive out labour is probably at more of a premium than yours. It isn't difficult, you just have to connect up at a rad, turn all rads off and flush boiler, then turn on one rad only and go around every part of system, then flush the rad you took off (bathroom usually most practical as can tolerate a certain amount of leakage from the temporary joints) ouit in garden.

For best practice method do all that to ocover the pipework to every part of the system but also flush each and every rad on it';s own without pipework out in the garden.

Takes me over a day to do the full monty and I hate doing it, but when I'm puting someone a new boiler in I don't want to go back to a thermister all sludged up or a secondary heat exchanger blocked with the stuff 'cause I don't like call backs they have a very high oportunity cost (which I know about because before I was a nurse I was a photographer and before that a despatch rider and before that an accounts clerk but before that I did a degree in Economics with Accounting).

For plumber colleagues who don't know what opportunuty cost is it's the money you lost because you couldn't do a paying job because you were called back to a job you should have got right in the first place.

The cost of which is even worse if like me you have a bloke sat next to you all the time whose wages keep on mounting up whether he is doing worthwhile work or watching you get cross because you have a call back.

 

[corgiman]

one problem with asking people on this site about the best boiler is this simple equation

10 plumbers asked for the above will always = 10 different boilers

 

[Nestor_Kelebay]

Qwerty:

Here's how things work in Canada, and you see if what I'm describing also makes sense where you live:

Here in Winnipeg, there are only 3 major wholesalers when it comes to plumbing and heating equipement; Emco, Westburne and B. A. Robinson.

90% of the plumbing companies will simply install whatever boiler the wholesaler they normally buy from carries.

The other boiler manufacturers don't want to be left out of the Winnipeg market simply because none of the wholesalers carry their brand, so they will make an arrangement with one of the larger plumbing companies to carry, sell, install and do the warranty work on their line of boilers. The plumbing company gets a commission on each boiler they sell, and they charge for installing it. Also, they also have the opportunity of making a little more if they sell an extended warrenty on the boiler.

That's how things work over here.

If they work the same over there, then if I were you, I would go with any of the brands that the major wholesalers carry. The reason why is that most of the houses in your area will have this brand of boiler, and so you'll not have trouble finding people in your area that are both knowledgeable about servicing them and will be well stocked with the parts most often needed to service them.

The moral of the story is:

If you ask the plumbing companies that sell one brand of boiler, they'll tell you the reason why they only sell that brand is because it's the best. I would tell you that too if I stood to earn a commission on selling you a boiler. If you ask the plumbing companies that buy their boilers from one of the wholesalers in town, they'll tell you they're all about the same. And, that's much closer to the truth. Boilers are NOT new technology, and no one company has a technological superiority over the others, just as no one bicycle manufacturer knows how to make a better bicycle than the others.

Truth is, the decision on where to draw the compromise between price and quality is a management decision based on the kind of customer the company is targeting and the stores they sell their products through, it's not something that's determined by the limitations of their engineering department.

 

[Paul Barker]

Fromn an outsider's perspective that probably makes sense.

Round here, City Plumbing wants my business back so I got a call from the glowworm rep (not a snowballs chance)

Graham rebadge Ideal boilers under the name Europa the only one of which that isn't made by Ideal is probably the worst boiler on the planet the Boxer, which Ideal carry spares for but don't actually make. The other ones are Ideal boilers (not a snowballs chance)

The thing is we get very few kick backs, at the end of the day we want a figure for our work, the cost of the boiler to us is reflected onto you.

One way to look at it is in our locality what can we get for the job. The unscrupulous would bang in a Boxer or whatever the flavour of the month is at the builders merchants. Places in Leeds and Bradford you can buy a whole heating pack with a boiler nobody has ever heard of and after the "wonderful" 2 year guarantee nobody will manage to get any information for it or spares. The installer will be long gone. Yet he will have acieved the local "market rate" so he will have made about £500 more than I would selling you a Buderus. The merchants make about 10 quid out of me on each Buderus. They began stocking the range for me (though to get local merchants interested I had to order the first pallet at my expense, the merchant who took the initiative and started to stock one of each at their expense now gets all my business). They want us to buy everything else from them, so that the manager doesn't get the sack for not raising turnover sufficiently in his area. They frequently take us out for a night on the town to vie for the business, but it has no influence on which boiler we recommend.

I recommend the boiler which I would buy my mother oif she were alive. I earn less money doing so. I know that in 20 years if it needs a new heat exchanger it will be economic to buy and to exchange (takes about 5 minutes). There is not usually any other part that defeats us on boilers more than the heat ex, which causes the demise of most boilers, though the cheaper combis aren't worth opening the cover on after 20 years.

 

[qwerty10000]

I';ve had another quote back which is £2200. It's to fit a WB junior 28i, install new living flame fire, parts and labour. Seems OK to me, had a few good reports about this particular plumber. One thing they did say though is if they get the job they can register the boiler so that it has a 2 year guarantee whereas others have said it would only have a 1 year guarantee.

We've got one plumber who won't tell me the quote or send it out as he wants to come out and see me again, is this usual? Sounds a bit pushy/sales speak to me as surely plumbers don't have time to revisit just to go through a quote unless they are short of work