Oak sleeper retaining wall plan

[GloriousEuropa]

Hello. Long post with a bit of a story sorry...

I've made a few threads here before asking about advice on building a driveway on my front garden and I got some great advice, for which I'm grateful.

Long story short, we accepted a quote for a guy to do our resin bound drive but he couldn't source the oak sleepers we wanted to replace our grumbling garden wall, and surround the drive itself, so we sourced them. £950 on Latvian oak sleepers now sat in the hallway.

After saying his phone broke, then his leg broke, but confirming three times he was still doing the job, it's now been another three weeks after saying he was definitely still doing it, and we haven't heard off him again.

We attempted to get other quotes, which were all double the price he gave.

So on reflection, and knowing I always have 3-4 car lengths of space to park on the road outside, I've decided to nix the drive idea and save the money.

Trouble is, I'm now stuck with a load of oak sleepers and no steps into the garden, just a dirt ramp, because I ripped out the steps in preparation for the driveway (which he knew I was doing).

So I've decided to tackle taking down the old crumbling wall, and building a nice straight oak sleeper wall with integrated oak sleeper steps.

I've done a sort of cross-section of how it should go, and would love some of your thoughts please.

As you can see I'm planning on laying a 150mm concrete bed almost flush with public road, with a 20mm x 250mm stainless steel dowel partway in the second sleeper up, through the first, then right through the concrete bed.

Then all other sleepers attached with Timco InDex stainless steel hex screws 150mm long and through the rest.

Then along the back some gravel to help drain water, some perforated plastic pipe to run the water into the road (through slight gaps in the bottom row of sleepers), and some filter fabric (geotextile membrane) to stop the soil from the lawn clogging the gravel.

The steps turning in at a right angle to the wall will also have the first layer of sleepers bedded into concrete with stainless steel dowels.

Is this overkill? It'll be 500mm high (5 x 100mm high sleepers).

I've spoken to my partner's grandfather who's a retired builder, and he said a concrete bed like that for just 500mm of wood sleepers and the stainless steel dowels are unnecessary.

So I was wondering would just 2 x 4 of those screws throughout the first sleeper down into the concrete be enough to secure it?

Also, the countersunk fixings in top layer of sleepers will be filled with some oak dowels knocked in with wood glue then sawn flush, so it won't look unsightly.

Many thanks for taking the time to read and offer any suggestions.

 

[dontbelieveawordofit]

planning a similar project myself. i’m sinking rsj’s in to the garden and slotting the sleepers in.

 

[GloriousEuropa]

planning a similar project myself. i’m sinking rsj’s in to the garden and slotting the sleepers in.

That's an interesting one. I'm assuming your sleepers will be on their side, so 200mm high?

How high will yours be?

 

[dontbelieveawordofit]

it will be around 5ft high .i intend laying the sleepers flat in the steels for the bottom 40” then on edge for the top 20” where less strength is needed. plus i think it will make an interesting feature.
no screws dowels or footing just concreted in steel joists.
your plan looks fairly typical i think of how its normally done

 

[GloriousEuropa]

it will be around 5ft high .i intend laying the sleepers flat in the steels for the bottom 40” then on edge for the top 20” where less strength is needed. plus i think it will make an interesting feature.
no screws dowels or footing just concreted in steel joists.
your plan looks fairly typical i think of how its normally done

Sounds great. 3x higher than mine then!

If that's how mine is normally done I'll proceed with it then. The stainless steel dowels are a bit pricey but hopefully with how sturdy it'll be and shielded from water build up, it'll last the ages!

Still open to more suggestions or comments though!

 

[noseall]

Still open to more suggestions or comments though!

Build a wall from masonry. It will be stronger, last longer and be safer.

Anyone that uses wood close to the ground is bonkers. Lethal when wet and it rots and one heck of a faff.

 

[23vc]

I’m doing sleepers for mine at the mo. I’ve done brickwork before for little retainers between patio and lawn etc, and I know it’ll last longer, but sleepers are just so quick and easy and the mrs likes the look, so We’ll see.
Slippyness not so much an issue as the step treads will be paving. Hoping to get at least 10 years out of 8x4 pressure treated fellas!

 

[GloriousEuropa]

Build a wall from masonry. It will be stronger, last longer and be safer.

Anyone that uses wood close to the ground is bonkers. Lethal when wet and it rots and one heck of a faff.

As I said, I already have the sleepers though from being tossed around by that driveway builder whom I shall be review bombing soon.

Surely leaving the step treads rough sawn, grainy and not sanding them will keep them from being slippery?

 

[GloriousEuropa]

I’m doing sleepers for mine at the mo. I’ve done brickwork before for little retainers between patio and lawn etc, and I know it’ll last longer, but sleepers are just so quick and easy and the mrs likes the look, so We’ll see.
Slippyness not so much an issue as the step treads will be paving. Hoping to get at least 10 years out of 8x4 pressure treated fellas!

Are your sleepers pine? Hence the 10 years? Because I’ve read that oak can last 20 years or even beyond if they’re kept from build up of water.

And the other half wanted the paving treads but I thought it looked hideous clashing with wood when Googling, but now I might consider it.

How are you going about installing paving between wood risers?

(as you can tell I’m brand new to all this and so far everything on this renovation project of mine so far has been demolition rather than building anything)

 

[noseall]

Surely leaving the step treads rough sawn, grainy and not sanding them will keep them from being slippery?

No.
Like all recipients of timber landscaping, you'll be delirious for the first few months, - long enough for the positive remarks and the money in the landscapers bank, to do him proud.
It's easy on the eye and even easier to fit.

Give it two Winters however.......

 

[GloriousEuropa]

No.
Like all recipients of timber landscaping, you'll be delirious for the first few months, - long enough for the positive remarks and the money in the landscapers bank, to do him proud.
It's easy on the eye and even easier to fit.

Give it two Winters however.......

Damn. I might have to go the paving treads route then!

 

[23vc]

Are your sleepers pine? Hence the 10 years? Because I’ve read that oak can last 20 years or even beyond if they’re kept from build up of water.

And the other half wanted the paving treads but I thought it looked hideous clashing with wood when Googling, but now I might consider it.

How are you going about installing paving between wood risers?

(as you can tell I’m brand new to all this and so far everything on this renovation project of mine so far has been demolition rather than building anything)

yep, pine
Treads - probably fill it with concrete to shore it up a bit then slab on top. Or possibly gravel it. Making it up as I go along.

 

[23vc]

Give it two Winters however.......

I’ll be missing doing my brickwork by then, so all good

 

[GloriousEuropa]

yep, pine
Treads - probably fill it with concrete to shore it up a bit then slab on top. Or possibly gravel it. Making it up as I go along.

See, that's my problem. I'd feel a tit making it up as I go along because I'm new to all this and feel a bit conscious of the looks by passerbys who might possibly know what they're doing. I had to choose a completely exposed, outdoor task as my first didn't I? But then that's getting messed around by a tradesman.

In terms of how the sleepers will be bedded and fixed into the concrete though, am I looking good? Or are the steel dowels unnecessary?

 

[GloriousEuropa]

No.
Like all recipients of timber landscaping, you'll be delirious for the first few months, - long enough for the positive remarks and the money in the landscapers bank, to do him proud.
It's easy on the eye and even easier to fit.

Give it two Winters however.......

Noseall after a quick thought and how decking is designed to be anti-slip I thought I'd Google, it and lo and behold

Would having these for treads be a much better option?