off-peak electricity issue - please help!

[flipper81]

I would be really grateful for some advice please....

I live in a new build (2006) flat which has peak electricity (available 24 hours) and off peak electricity (available during the night). The appliances which run off the off-peak power have two sockets, and the off peak socket is switched to 'on' all the time. These sockets have a red indicator light on them and the light is off during the day and comes on at night, along with the appliance itself.

Recently, the off-peak supply has developed a fault - the red indicator light still comes on but the appliances all remain off. It happened to all 3 appliances on the same day so that excludes a fault with them. The fuses are still OK. We can still get power during the night from the peak circuit.

I understood that the two sockets represent two separate circuits because a note on the fuse box says '2 SUPPLIES ENTER THIS UNIT ISOLATE BOTH BEFORE ENTERING'.

I contacted an electrician, who said that the fault must be outside my flat and that I would need to contact my supplier. My supplier can't seem to understand the problem and says that if there was a fault with my meter then I would have no power at all. When I try to explain that I have two separate circuits (because I thought I do - am I wrong?) they say I can't have because I only have one meter.

I would be so grateful if someone could explain to me what I need to say to them about what has caused this! Thank you

Philippa

 

[Spark123]

As the indicators on the sockets are coming on it smells more of a fault with your appliances or the socket outlet.
Do the appliances still work if you plug them into a normal supply?
What are the appliances and are they each connected to their own socket?

 

[JohnD]

ask your friends and neighbours if they can recommend a better electrician

the meter and its associated equipment have one supply going in, and divide it into two using the timeswitch. So the fault is not outside your home. If the red neon indicator comes on but the appliances do not work I suspect a high-resistance poor connection, possibly at the CU or timeswitch. Look for signs of smoke, scorching or heat.

if you plug a low-load appliance such as a phone charger into the offpeak socket it may work, and if you plug in a high-load appliance like a kettle, the red light may dim or go out.

post some pics of your meter, timeswitch, consumer unit and the cables around and between them.
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=129539

 

[Lectrician]

Are the appliances storage heaters? Have you been drying wet clothes from all this rain over the heaters

Seriously, if the lights are coming on, it sounds like each 'appliance' (or heater?) is at fault. I would suspect if they are heaters that the thermal overloads have operated....

 

[flipper81]

Three replies already - I love you guys!

OK, so....

Spark123 - the off-peak supplies two storage heaters and one immersion heater (in the hot water tank). They are literally wired into the off-peak socket so I can't plug them in to the peak supply.

JohnD - I will ask my friends and neighbours for recommendations - but you have also reminded me of another fact; my neighbours [same building] have not had any problems with their off-peak supply which suggests to me it is not a generic meter issue. There are no signs of smoke, heat, scorching etc anywhere I can see, however my actual meter is in the communal corridor which I have no access to, so I can't easily post photos. I will chase the concierge a bit tomorrow - see if he will let me in the cupboard for a sneaky snap

Lectrician - no, do not fear, we have not been drying anything at all on the heaters (it is two heaters and an immersion heater in a tank) and they all stopped working on the same day.

 

[big-all]

just a thought
the red indicators arnt reflecting another light source like a torch or room light!!
its just having 3 indicators alight and no power is very strange and requires a multiple fault

 

[JohnD]

does the red neon dim when the heaters are turned on?

at this time of year, how do you know when the storage heaters stopped working?


**who's got the link for the Competent Persons search? *****

 

[1john]

loose or burnt out neutral connection somewhere on the supply is my only guess. You need to get a sparky in with some test equipment and they will need access to the meter cupboard.

 

[flipper81]

I have uploaded two photos: //www.diynot.com/network/flipper81/albums/

big-all - no they're not reflecting

John D - I don't know if the neon light (on the off-peak) dims when the heater comes on because it hasn't come on since it stopped working so I didn't paid attention beforehand. The peak doesn't dim. I don't use the heaters regularly (I switched them on when the problem occurred in March to check it wasn't just a problem with the immersion heater in the tank) but I presumed it wouldn't be an identical fault affecting three appliances in one night? Or could it?

1John - I have aked 3 now - they all say the same thing....!

Philippa x

 

[Spark123]

What is the thermostat set to on the storage heater?
What make and model are the storage heaters?

 

[seasickstevie]

...I don't know if the neon light (on the off-peak) dims when the heater comes on because it hasn't come on since it stopped working so I didn't paid attention beforehand. The peak doesn't dim.

JohnD means (I think) does the 'off-peak' neon on the flex-outlet (or FCU - it's not a socket btw) dim when you operate the switch on the heater?

The 'peak' won't dim because there isn't likely to be a problem with the 'peak'. Does the fan come on with the fan/booster switch?
(If it hasn't got a fan or booster over-ride, why would it have a 24hr supply?)

My money's with 1john. Break in neutral. Neons with live feed and are finding a neutral through 'induction'

 

[JohnD]

Looking at the pictures, it looks to me like power is going to the storage heater when the offpeak comes on, because the appliance light comes on. It does not look dim like it would if there was a high-resistance connection under load

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You need to find a better local electrician

A few minutes work with screwdriver and meter in the right hands would pinpoint the problem. An experienced electrician will be familiar with faulty appliances as well as faulty circuits.

This http://www.competentperson.co.uk/search.asp is a good place to start (only enter the first few characters of your postcode) as it covers the basic qualification required, though personal recommendation would be a good layer to add on. As a rule of thumb, people who are not on the Competernt Persons register may or may not be any good, but would you deliberately choose a taxi driver with no licence? ask about their charges; some electricians may specialise in new build or house rewires or industrial work rather than domestic fault finding. Ask if the person coming round is registered, or if it is just the firm, and how long he has been registered.

BTW I think you are wrong to say it can't be the appliances or that they all failed on the same day. When the fault occurred, and when you noticed it, may not be the same. There might also be a factor about heater thermostats and warm weather.

I am also sure it is not a fault outside the house, and it is probably not a fault in your meter or offpeak timeswitch.

 

[Lectrician]

What have you got the input stat set on?

Can you take a pic of the immersion element with the cover off?

It really looks like power is getting to the heaters - those neons are not floating, they are on.

I would suspect stat too low in warm weather, not being left on long enough, or overheat cutouts operated. I would also possibly suspect overheat cutout in immersion. Could of course be many other things. You need a decent spark.

Actually, not neccessarily a decent one, just not an incompetent one.

 

[1john]

You need a decent spark.

Actually, not neccessarily a decent one, just not an incompetent one.

Actually she just needs one that can find and fix the fault(s) and quickly too

 

[OwainDIYer]

I wonder if peak and offpeak have been transposed at either the CU or the heater FCUs, what make and model are your heaters, and can you post a photo of the meter/teleswitch/CUs please.