Old cellar in floor

[John Davison]

Hi, my joiner is in today replacing the stairs in my 18th century house. He's sent me the following pictures showing what was under the old staircase. It looks like there was a cellar or at least a void that has been partly filled in. He needs me to get it filled and smoothed over for the new staircase to sit on. Any advice please on what method is the most suitable for getting this done in the next few days?

Thanks

 

[vinn]

If your house is indeed 18thC then it would almost certainly be under a listing that required approval for any work?
However, the weird construction of the floor implies something other than a listed building?
The floor seems to be composed of layers of odds & ends - but perhaps I'm wrong?
What is the pipe for - gas or water?


OP, you must determine whether you have a rubble filled in basement (or, doubtful but worth investigating, do you have suspended floors over a crawl space). Why, because there might be ongoing or future issues with damp and lack of ventilation.
The debris in the pic is modern - post 1945 material.

Given that the patched floor opening will be out of the traffic pattern - by being below the flight of stairs.
Then you could tamp down the debris and pour a semi-dry mix of concrete in to finish level with the surrounding flooring.

Its not a great solution but it will do I guess.

 

[JBR]

I don't know about you, but if it were me I'd want to know what's down there. Who knows? There might be some interesting and historical artefacts. Then again, there might just be rubble, which would need taking out and disposing of - probably quite a big job. Still, if you did excavate you'd have an extra room or two.

 

[theprinceofdarkness]

I would lift the debris out until I was certain I had got down to some level which would take the weight of the stairs woodwork. i.e. you did not have a loose brick "arch" just under your stairs, which could collapse.
Frank

 

[bernardgreen]

If your house is indeed 18thC then it would almost certainly be under a listing that required approval for any work?

Not ""almost certainly"" but ""could possibly""

Age alone does not get a building listed.. My cottage ( 500+ years old ) is listed, another cottage of about the same age is not listed.

 

[John Davison]

Thanks all for your replies so far. The building is not listed, it was briefly in the 80s but they removed the status. The floor downstairs is a bit of a mish mash as it was originally two houses joined together by the victorians. Under half of the floor the original flags can be seen covered by 100mm of concrete, a DPM and the another 100mm of concrete. In the area of the stairs there are 30mm floorboards over the cellar space covered in 200mm of concrete with another DPM. The problem area under the stair appears to have had the first layer of concrete but missed out on the second. Having a dig around in the space there are stone walls holding up the joists and the cellar appears to extend under one room of the house only. I've got a few builders out tonight to look at getting it filled and concreted over. The new staircase extends over the gap fortunately so we can work under it before boxing the area back into a cupboard. It looks like at the moment we are going to try and back fill the hole and then sand, DPM and 100mm of concrete to level - sound ok with everyone?

 

[John Davison]

Oh, and also the pipe is an old gas pipe, it's now defunct.

 

[bernardgreen]

The building is not listed, it was briefly in the 80s but they removed the status.

Do you have any information as to how that occurred ? Un-listing my cottage would save the council a lot of paper work. Having to go through listed building consent for every like for like repair (such as re-pointing the stone work ) costs time and tax payer's money

 

[John Davison]

I'm afraid not - they listed the whole village at once but then realised that a lot of the houses weren't exactly in their original state (mine was covered in cement render with plastic windows back then - thankfully all gone now). My neighbours on one side are still listed, the other side isn't. Although we are now in a conservation area instead. Perhaps speak to the local planning officer and see if he thinks it still should be listed and ask how you can apply for it to be removed although I expect this would affect its value.

 

[bernardgreen]

speak to the local planning officer and see if he thinks it still should be listed and ask how you can apply for it to be removed although I expect this would affect its value.

They have been spoken to and they say there is no way they would un-list it. For me it is not a major problem as I do not intend any major changes. It is just the 6 weeks delay on some of the repairs that makes life a bit difficult at times and the paper work it creates.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

They have been spoken to and they say there is no way they would un-list it. For me it is not a major problem as I do not intend any major changes. It is just the 6 weeks delay on some of the repairs that makes life a bit difficult at times and the paper work it creates.

Don't buy a listed house then.