Old Ideal Classic

[chatlow]

We have a 30 year old Ideal Classic heat only system with cylinder in the cupboard upstairs. Need hot water on for heating. Costing us quite a lot so will be looking to change asap to be honest. It still works fairly well mind.


I have a question about temp setting. We have it set to 4 (out of 6) on the boiler. Noticing that its having to fire up quite often I guess to maintain this temperature in the cylinder. The thermostat is new (Honeywell gt4) and seems to be doing a good job. Would it make more sense increasing the boiler (water) temp to 5 or 6 so that it stays on and once gets to this does less firing up or will it not make a difference?

Thanks

 

[martygturner]

How much insulation is on the tank ? Can you add more ? Stored water in a tank have to be kept @65 to stop legionella so I suspect the new thermostat is trying to do this as its set to 65c. To combat the temp fall insulate the tank to within an inch of its life.

 

[Stuckinarut]

I’m told the Ideal Classic is one of the ones Ideal got right and is a very well built boiler. I doubt it’s the boiler at fault anyway.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Boiler is one of the better offerings from Ideal, I'd be inclined to suggest if it aint broke, don't fix it, it will take a long time to claw back the cost of replacement in any potential gas savings. If boiler still has some life in it, then look at upgrading your system and controls in the short term.

If it's frequently firing, then that heat has to be going somewhere, Insulation on the cylinder is key here, hence why modern cylinders come precoated with sprayed on insulation which gives excellent heat retention. If you've an older cylinder without a jacket, at the very least, get it as well insulated as you can, and/or look at swapping it out for a newer type.

The boiler is only firing in order to try and maintain the temperature of the water, and it's doing that as heat is escaping somewhere and/or water is being drawn off lowering the cylinder temperature.

 

[chatlow]

Thanks all, yeah I suspect it's cylinder insulation causing the issue. I say issue, it's fires up quite often and for quite a while. Def on more on than off.

The cylinder is also very old and apart from some rusty sections in the jacket it's also doing ok and no leake. Pic below. What insulation would be best to add, I'll get some tomorrow

 

[Stuckinarut]

Might not be the insulation. Check that cylinder thermostat is attached properly would be a good start.

 

[chatlow]

Does it look incorrectly fitted? I presume its the white and grey box at the bottom.
Is the cylinder jacket enough or could it be better insulated

 

[Stuckinarut]

Does it look incorrectly fitted? I presume its the white and grey box at the bottom.

Yes it's the white and grey box. Hard to tell, I've not seen one like it before.

Is the cylinder jacket enough or could it be better insulated

It's pre-lagged, so no additional insulation required

 

[chatlow]

Yes it's the white and grey box. Hard to tell, I've not seen one like it before.

It's pre-lagged, so no additional insulation required

Ok well in that case I'm not sure where to go with this. I wouldn't know how to check the stat, so will prob have to get an engineer in and make sure the setup is working optimally

 

[Stuckinarut]

Ok well in that case I'm not sure where to go with this. I wouldn't know how to check the stat, so will prob have to get an engineer in and make sure the setup is working optimally

They should usually be strapped to the side of the cylinder making contact with the bare copper.

 

[chatlow]

ah okay. No idea! If i fiddle with it, or even disconnect it, I can imagine knowing my luck, we'll lose the system and I'll be upgrading a lot sooner than we budgeted for

 

[chatlow]

does anyone know how long hot water should stay hot in the cylinder for? I am trying to set the programmer up in a more energy efficient way. Currently we always have the hot water on constantly when the heating is on, but I suspect this is a waste of gas and we could prob reduce it down. Only 2 of us in a 3 bed house. Two relatively short showers a day.
Just had the water and heating on for 6 hours, the shut the water off half an hour ago and heating was still good, so just curious

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Ok well in that case I'm not sure where to go with this. I wouldn't know how to check the stat, so will prob have to get an engineer in and make sure the setup is working optimally

You could try checking the stat is tightly clipped to the bare copper, they normally have like a net curtain spring, around the cylinder, pulling them tight to the copper.

You might also check the operation of the stat - mark the temperature setting of the stat, on the dial, then adjust it up and down, there should be maybe 5 to 10C difference, between the clicks it makes, and the clicks should be sharp and clean.

Usefully, you certainly could add some insulation around it. Mine is yellow insulated, and adding an old bed duvet made an appreciable difference to how long mine retained heat. You only need to add extra insulation around the lower 3/4 section, the top 1/4 is a cold header tank.

I have my hot water set to come on at 3pm through to 8pm, that more than takes care of baths, washing up and etc., and we still have very hot water next morning, through to 3pm.

 

[chatlow]

Thanks for this, very detailed info. The stat seems to be screwed on and against the copper, it seems solid but not sure what else I can check without unscrewing it off. As for the temp, how do I find this? Is there a way to open the plastic housing and does it contain a gauge? The only setting for our hot water (that I was aware of) is on the boiler (0-6 and it's on 4)

As for timings thats good. We are prob using a similar schedule but have been putting it on for an hour in the mornings as well, which prob isn't needed

Will Def add some more insulation too

 

[Dereekoo]

Are you saying without the central heating on the boiler fires up often just to heat your hot water cylinder? or are you saying it fires up often when you have your central heating on?