Open Fire

[cjcirillo]

Morning all, I'm new to this forum and hope this is posted in the right section. We have a fire in the lounge which I have opened up, it has just been swept and we would like to have it up and running for Christmas, I have found some Quarry tiles in the garden and laid them in place, there is a constructional hearth to the front and below the flue there was quarry tiles which I have lifted which appears to be laid on a very lose sandy mixture.

My questions are, will the original bricks to the side and rear withstand an open fire or do they need to have fireproof bricks/boards/screed applied?

Can the hearth be built up with a cement mix to then lay the quarry tiles on?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

I have just uploaded a picture of the fireplace, I hope this works...

Chris

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• cjcirillo
• 8 Dec 2014
• 1

 

[Jackrae]

That doesn't look like a fire-back arrangement. I suspect someone has taken out the fire-brick shaped system that is required to reflect heat and encourage smoke to go up the flue.

Can you take a photo of the side of the brickwork to show if a throat exists and possibly a shot with the camera at ground level looking up into the flue opening to determine if there is a shaped flue.

Near the bottom of this article you'll see what an open fire should look like

http://chestofbooks.com/architectur...-Good-Construction-Practice.html#.VIWMjmSsV8s

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

 

[ree]

You cannot have a wood fire surround so close to an open fire opening.

You will need a fire back and throating.

The hearth can be built up from concrete - sand and cement and stone.

You need to find out how the the fender hearth below the floor is constructed.

You will need a consultation with a HETAS, this is a must.

Edit: i see above a useful diagram has just been posted.

 

[cjcirillo]

Thanks Jackrae, I will take some additional photo's this evening and pop them up. Thanks also Ree, we do plan to change/remove the current wood surround, is the fender hearth the part directly beneath the flue? If so there was only quarry tiles and some slate on a lose sandy bed. I have had a HETAS contractor round and he made some 'advisory' suggestions, relining the flue, fitting a metal cage to the inside and performing a pressure smoke test. It appeared as though these were only best practice suggestions and weren't imperative. I have spoke to quite a lot of people including the chap who swept it yesterday, it just seems like different people have different views - I just thought a few more should confuse me even more.

 

[ree]

Unless you have had a failed smoke test, and had a camera down the flue to confirm damage, then, typically, there's no reason to re-line the flue.

Pre-heat the flue for a few minutes, and then light a smoke pellet(s) and observe the draw and any smoke escaping into another flue or into the property. A smoke test is an imperative.

After fitting a fireback and throating then do another smoke test to determine the draw.

What is meant by "a metal cage" i dont know.

The construction detail of the front and back hearths, and the surrounding fender wall, are illustrated in the above diagram.

The fire opening in the face of the chimney breast, as it stands, is too large and needs reducing.

 

[cjcirillo]

Ive done a few smoke tests, once when partially bricked up and once it was fully opened and no smoke escapes so I think the flue is fairly sound, it draws the smoke up well. What exactly is the throating? im just in the process of getting quotes for a builder to brick the sides up and install a lintel.

 

[stuart45]

He probably means a metal gather for cage which would be needed if an S/S liner was used. Smoke tests are better under pressure with the top and bottom sealed.

 

[Jackrae]

The throat is the restriction that is built just below the top of the fire opening. As the hot fire gases pass through the throat their velocity increases and the pressure drops (google Bernoulli principle). This produces a slight vacuum in the area of the throat which then draws room air into the gas stream so preventing smoke drifting into the room.

If the throat isn't there, when you light the fire there's nothing to encourage the smoke to go up the flue and it will spill out into the room. Been there tried it and got the T-shirt.

 

[cjcirillo]

224743/86525_84664609.jpg[/net]

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• cjcirillo
• 9 Dec 2014
• 1

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• cjcirillo
• 9 Dec 2014
• 1

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• cjcirillo
• 9 Dec 2014
• 1

Here are some additional picture I took this morning. From what I can see the throat is in place?

 

[ree]

Just to confirm: we are talking about an open solid fuel fire ie. a traditional coal fire is proposed?

You do have a throating, and the crust of carbon leading up the flue suggests that you need to power flail sweep the flue - all your flues, and have the stack terminals checked for appropriateness and soundness. It looks as tho the previous used wood as a fuel - carbon crust's can easily ignite from smouldering embers.

The fire opening and the flue appear to be quite large, see: soliftec.com/openfires

A fireback/surround could reduce the opening dimensions.

 

[Jackrae]

Bit difficult to tell, but i'm pretty sure there isn't a throat. Also the light colour brickwork suggests that someone has removed the fireback system and associated throat at some time. As has been said by others "get a professional registered guy in to advise. Money well spent if an insurance claim should ever be required.